What can someone like me do to help? Someone who know little about politics or policy, who k ow little about encryption, but who is concerned about the development?
I live in the EU but I am not even sure who my representatives are to whom I could raise my concern. Where in the EU is this being worked on?
EU Draft Council Declaration Against Encryption [pdf]
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Re: EU Draft Council Declaration Against Encryption [pdf]
#102Earlier quoted context omitted.
If by “we” you mean “the UK”, I’d like to point you in the direction of the UK’s Investigatory Powers Act, which is much worse than “we don’t like encrypted chat”: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Investigatory_Powers_Act_201...
That is true, but you will be able to vote for a party in power to reverse it. Not possible in case of EU.
Which party is that?
Re: EU Draft Council Declaration Against Encryption [pdf]
#103I'm in my early 40s. Up until I was ~35 I was very strongly against this, sort of like most you. Now I feel the EU in general (some member states a lot worse than others) has backed itself into a corner because of the utterly failed integration efforts, union-wide. I live in a EU nation that has seen a very high rise in violent (and sometimes frankly horrible) crime over the past decade. As a dad of a 1-year old daug…
Yes, because creating a backdoor key that WILL get leaked will help your daughter not get hacked and blackmailed when she has a phone.
Re: EU Draft Council Declaration Against Encryption [pdf]
#104The EU is slowly starting to show their true face. We probably have left at the last minute. I personally think this is an attempted assault on human rights and such ideas should be nipped in a bud and people proposing that banned from any office. My blood boils.
> We probably have left at the last minute. If that means you’re British: the GCHQ initiated this. Nobody is more under video surveillance than you guys. Enjoy your chat loicense.
Fun fact, almost all of that surveillance is operated by private players - pubs, shops, small stores, etc. The UK never had a Big Brother set up unlike some mainland cities. People keep bringing up this bullshit statistic without going deeper.
And it's not like the police can barge in and demand video.
Re: EU Draft Council Declaration Against Encryption [pdf]
#105We need to establish the use of encryption as a basic human right. I'm so tired of this cropping up every couple years.
The EU doesn't see free speech as a basic human right. They are of the opinion that some ideas are dangerous in and of themselves, even without a call to violence. It is doubtful that it will see something like encryption that allows speech and communication at a distance without government knowledge or control as a basic human right. After all, if some speech is so dangerous that it cannot be posted online, then we…
> The EU doesn't see free speech as a basic human right
Of course it is, it's called freedom of opinion, simply some opinions are considered crimes by the EU law system.
Removing a post that incites someone to commit suicide or to kill someone can save the poster from being prosecuted.
That's it.
Private communications are excempted though, unless they need to be used in a trial after a judge authorized it.
Re: EU Draft Council Declaration Against Encryption [pdf]
#106Earlier quoted context omitted.
What makes you think that this will reduce violent crime in any meaningful way? The guy who mugs you isn't going to go on Messenger and send out a quick "brb gonna mug someone" message. And they definitely won't if they know the government is listening. And regardless, we trade freedoms for risk of death all the time. We would have far less crime if no one was allowed to leave their house without an ankle monitor and…
I don't think he's talking about the guy who mugs him. More like about the guy who mows down a crowd with an automatic weapon, the guy who drives a truck through the center of a Christmas market or the guy who blows up a metro station. That kind of people.
Well, no, you're wrong. The terrorists are horrible, of course, but they don't really cause that much of a risk to the everyday person.
In my country there's a rapidly growing organized crime scene built around the distribution of narcotics. They are organizing themselves via these apps using burner phones. They are exploding bombs in multi-home buildings to scare/take out the competition on a weekly basis. And its all accellerating at a very scary rate.
School-age kids are using what sales people love to refer to as "military grade encryption" to communicate about hits/murders.
Re: EU Draft Council Declaration Against Encryption [pdf]
#107Earlier quoted context omitted.
Do you have any sources on this? I’m interested.
I am from Slovakia and yes - this idiot actually went to our capital city (near border) to a gun shop and tried to buy ammunition for his AK-47. Of course you can't buy anything if you are not a citizen and you don't have a gun permit. So he didn't buy anything, the seller contacted the police and they did a background check and found out that he was sentenced for radicalism, he tried to go to Syria to fight a war an…
Thanks, I couldn't have written it better.
@lprd It was all over the news in the German language sphere, which I happen to receive via satellite. (German and Austrian news). I don't have links at the ready but you're able to find them with a little google-fu (or similar search engine).
I remind the readers about the upload filters "guidelines" and other internet censorship "guidelines". The EU is not a democracy, it's a corrupt rule of a few political elites. And they want to spy on us. First they went the NSA route, and when that blew up because of Edward Snowden, now they want their own NSA.
In which democracy does a parliament elected by the people have 0 rights over a council? And the council has veto power about anything the parliament decides? Is that a democracy? No it's not.
Those are the people who make the rules: https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/european-council/members/
It doesn't matter who's in the parliament as they're powerless to decide anything meaningful.
Re: EU Draft Council Declaration Against Encryption [pdf]
#108I look forward to diplomatic Signal messages being leaked to the public immediately.
Most diplomats use Whats App more than Signal.
Re: EU Draft Council Declaration Against Encryption [pdf]
#109Earlier quoted context omitted.
The problem is that you can’t leave any room for interpretation, because governments generally interpret things as liberally as they can in their favor, to the brink of absurdity. In other words, “encryption” needs to be listed there as a right, to remove any room for interpretation. Or explicitly listed as an example of a more general right, like the right to private speech (or whatever you want to call it).
The EU ministers do want us to have a right to encryption. They just want to be able to decrypt it.
Like TSA luggage keys.... there's no way those would leak online, and no way anybody would be able to download them from https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1687424 and 3d-print them... no way something like that'd happen!
Re: EU Draft Council Declaration Against Encryption [pdf]
#110I don't have a nice name for people in EU parliament that write these things, they don't really understand what encryption is. It's not a technology. You can't ban encryption. Terrorists can just use unencrypted chat and either use their own encryption or they can use predefined words and sentences that actually have a totally different meaning.
This is not from the Parliament. This is from the Council of Ministers. All shitty ideas in the EU come from there or from the Commission. These bodies are not elected and have very little, and very indirect, democratic legitimation.
It is also eye opening to watch how MEP vote. This is a farce and has nothing to do with democracy. They just want to enslave and control all Europeans.