A divorce in Italy destroyed my researcher career • Hacker News Board

Re: A divorce in Italy destroyed my researcher career

#101

Post by sigmaprimus » Wed, Nov 04, 2020, 12:51 AM UTC

julianmarq wrote: post #96

sigmaprimus wrote: post #58

I feel bad for this guy, unfortunately he is just at the beginning of the world of hurt and pain he most likely is goin to experience. Having gone through an ugly family breakup, I can attest to how painful and stressful it is for everyone. Especially once the courts get involved. From my experience the courts are very unsympathetic to any arguments outside the general consensus, almost to the point of being obtuse o…

> the courts are very unsympathetic to any arguments outside the general consensus, almost to the point of being obtuse or jaded. What you said after this is not any more sympathetic. > Childhood is important but it is not a lifetime, in some ways it is better to check ones ego and just step back and wait. This is an astonishing display of lack of empathy for the unfairly estranged parent. Not having your child in yo…

I suppose you're right.

I have gone through this have You? If so how did it work out for You? I hope much better than me and my son.

But if You haven't gone through the courts, maybe be a bit less ritcheous.

Edit

>>> "This is an astonishing display of lack of empathy for the unfairly estranged parent. Not having your child in your life is one of the worst forms of torture a person should not be forced to endure."

What is astonishing is I am that parent, maybe all the torture made me less empathetic to myself.

Also I was not arguing in favor of the courts unfairness. Infact, I am well aware of how hard the courts can cone down on anyone who doesn't toe the line. So don't be spinning my comnent, and keep your charity, thanks.

Re: A divorce in Italy destroyed my researcher career

#102

Post by mbeex » Wed, Nov 04, 2020, 2:31 AM UTC

sigmaprimus wrote: post #101

julianmarq wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the courts are very unsympathetic to any arguments outside the general consensus, almost to the point of being obtuse or jaded. What you said after this is not any more sympathetic. > Childhood is important but it is not a lifetime, in some ways it is better to check ones ego and just step back and wait. This is an astonishing display of lack of empathy for the unfairly estranged parent. Not having your child in yo…

I suppose you're right. I have gone through this have You? If so how did it work out for You? I hope much better than me and my son. But if You haven't gone through the courts, maybe be a bit less ritcheous. Edit >>> "This is an astonishing display of lack of empathy for the unfairly estranged parent. Not having your child in your life is one of the worst forms of torture a person should not be forced to endure." Wha…

I actually voted for the comments of both of you. I think, you are not far from each other. Written language is sometimes limited :)

Re: A divorce in Italy destroyed my researcher career

#103

Post by sigmaprimus » Wed, Nov 04, 2020, 3:48 AM UTC

mbeex wrote: post #102

sigmaprimus wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suppose you're right. I have gone through this have You? If so how did it work out for You? I hope much better than me and my son. But if You haven't gone through the courts, maybe be a bit less ritcheous. Edit >>> "This is an astonishing display of lack of empathy for the unfairly estranged parent. Not having your child in your life is one of the worst forms of torture a person should not be forced to endure." Wha…

I actually voted for the comments of both of you. I think, you are not far from each other. Written language is sometimes limited :)

Thank you,

I could go into my particular situation, My ex was an opiod addict who ended up consuming my mother who was dying of lung cancer's medication. She constantly verbally and occasionally physically abused be, infront of our son. Then in court she had the nerve to accuse me of hitting her, which I never did. But because I was honest and admitted to using canabis (which is now legal) the courts believed her.

So yeah, I lost contact, as well as being hammered with a 100K+ maintenance bill until he turned 25, including losing my passport and drivers license when I lost my job and fell behind. Of course his mother OD'd a couple years later when I paid off what was due and he ended up being raised by the state....I guess the studies didn't include the kids like that, huh?

I read that other guts comment history and it's all aguments and belittling so what ever.

Good news I'm more upset, triggered about this than the election now!

Re: A divorce in Italy destroyed my researcher career

#104

Post by Fire-Dragon-DoL » Wed, Nov 04, 2020, 4:03 AM UTC

As a child of divorced parents in Italy, I can confirm. The divorce in in the case was dramatic, repercussions are still around, 27 years later. My father messed up in multiple ways, heavy ones too, but the unilateral vision of the system also forced my easily influenced vision of kid in a certain way for a long time, until I was way older (about 20 years old, my parents divorced when I was 3 and a half).

Up to this day, I'm really conflicted about everything surrounding it. This article says the truth, but it does overlook how painful it is for a 3 years old to have 2 bedrooms and 2 different places to stay. I can confirm that, it's one of the things I suffered the most for. And it goes on until you are much older (14-16-18) when it becomes alienating.

My uncle went through a divorce and things went exactly how described on the article. The mother had no job, she was renting an owned place as income, so she took over their family house and the kids and she got also paid. My uncle was able to fix some of the situation, not sure how, it seems like he got in a better relationship with the ex wife.

It's a nightmare I'd never recommend to anyone and the psychological support I received as a child was not closely enough. I repeatedly had to "choose" between my parents throughout my life, even though it was clearly stated to me by the child support that it should never have happened. That money should have never been between me, my father and my mother, while it was repeatedly and continuously one of the key points. I blame both parents for that, but today I ask myself if the government shouldn't provide a lot more support to me, the kid (and my sister).

Anyway, it's a big mess, I can't help but seeing a lot of truth in what's written.

Re: A divorce in Italy destroyed my researcher career

#105

Post by candiodari » Wed, Nov 04, 2020, 10:55 AM UTC

giantg2 wrote: post #76

candiodari wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We live in a democracy and clearly, no, this isn't what people want. They want people to not lose any living standard over something "they can't help" like a divorce, and of course all animals are equal but some are more equal (kids and women). This money is not allowed to come from the state or justice system so it must come from the only source it can come from: whoever actually earns money. So if you divorce, you…

My wife's father got divorced and had a high paying job, so he was required to pay a lot of child support. He was in a car accident which resulted in him being in a coma for months. Since he wasn't making money during that time in the hospital, his bank account was emptied and the court issued an arrest warrant since the child support was not being paid. He lost his job and was never able to get a new one. He's now l…

It didn't just ruin his life, odds are pretty good it will have seriously damaged the life of the child and other parent as well by suddenly taking away that income, and by damaging the whole family further by taking slow, violent action. All of which impose extra costs on the person that was supposed to care for others. Actions that did not just destroy that person, but also the money and the care it bought for the child ...

Re: A divorce in Italy destroyed my researcher career

#106

Post by giantg2 » Wed, Nov 04, 2020, 11:49 AM UTC

candiodari wrote: post #105

giantg2 wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My wife's father got divorced and had a high paying job, so he was required to pay a lot of child support. He was in a car accident which resulted in him being in a coma for months. Since he wasn't making money during that time in the hospital, his bank account was emptied and the court issued an arrest warrant since the child support was not being paid. He lost his job and was never able to get a new one. He's now l…

It didn't just ruin his life, odds are pretty good it will have seriously damaged the life of the child and other parent as well by suddenly taking away that income, and by damaging the whole family further by taking slow, violent action. All of which impose extra costs on the person that was supposed to care for others. Actions that did not just destroy that person, but also the money and the care it bought for the…

In this case money and the child's living condition wasn't an issue since her mother started a high paying job too. But yes, there's added stress to this day because he's constantly in need of something, including housing.

Re: A divorce in Italy destroyed my researcher career

#107

Post by albertopv » Wed, Nov 04, 2020, 12:04 PM UTC

paultopia wrote: post #24

This is astonishingly paranoid, even conspiracy-theory promoting. The writer claims at several points that divorce law in Italy is (allegedly) unfair because judges know that fathers typically have more resources to engage in litigation appealing bad judgments, and hence more lawyers and domestic violence clinics will get paid. Where is the evidence for such an over-the-top accusation? The fact of the matter is that…

I'm italian and I live in Italy. My wife's parents divorced when she was 8. My cousin divorced. I can totally confirm what's written in this post. 99% of the times it's not even in question with which parent children should stay. Anecdotally, but it is well known that divorced fathers are the new poors (sorry, couldn't find english article): https://www.ilsole24ore.com/art/padri-separati-quando-l-asse...

Anecdotally, you should really live in Italy to understand its terrible legal system.

Re: A divorce in Italy destroyed my researcher career

#108

Post by mixmastamyk » Thu, Nov 05, 2020, 3:28 AM UTC

julianmarq wrote: post #96

sigmaprimus wrote: post #58

I feel bad for this guy, unfortunately he is just at the beginning of the world of hurt and pain he most likely is goin to experience. Having gone through an ugly family breakup, I can attest to how painful and stressful it is for everyone. Especially once the courts get involved. From my experience the courts are very unsympathetic to any arguments outside the general consensus, almost to the point of being obtuse o…

> the courts are very unsympathetic to any arguments outside the general consensus, almost to the point of being obtuse or jaded. What you said after this is not any more sympathetic. > Childhood is important but it is not a lifetime, in some ways it is better to check ones ego and just step back and wait. This is an astonishing display of lack of empathy for the unfairly estranged parent. Not having your child in yo…

Very uncharitable interpretation.

Re: A divorce in Italy destroyed my researcher career

#109

Post by RegulaK » Fri, Nov 06, 2020, 12:50 PM UTC

In more than 15 years of expérience in cross border divorces I have seen that the current complaints by fathers are often linked to the tentative by judges to redress open or hidden biases penalizing mothers. The route to equality is still very long, in both ways. Every case is different and the reason why a marriage ended with a divorce do matter in assessing the child’s best interest. Statistics on violence against women are far too high for invoking in the present moment the neutralization of maternal preference. Hopefully the moment will come for the next generation

Re: A divorce in Italy destroyed my researcher career

#110

Post by etergri » Fri, Nov 06, 2020, 5:10 PM UTC

jaclaz wrote: post #71

dathinab wrote: post #46

I wonder why it's flagged, the article is clearly trying the best to be reasonable impartial. It's also well known that sometimes, in some countries maybe more then others, decisions wrt. children are biased toward mother's. I have seen one such case in my environment myself. I belive it is important that such Curt decisions are based on the combination of the situation both parents are in and guidelines in a imparti…

Personally, I don't understand why it is flagged (there is IMHO no reason for flagging), but I have rarely seen a more unilateral and partial report.

Every single point is verifiable actually. Take a look at the sentences on https://www.altalex.com/ (Italian knowledge required). You'll find that this is no 'partial' report, it's just stating the reality and trying to find a logical reason other than "the judges are just racist against men", which of course sounds a bit silly.