Media Owned by Wealthy Are Quick to Tell You Wealth Taxes Are a Bad Idea • Hacker News Board

Re: Media Owned by Wealthy Are Quick to Tell You Wealth Taxes Are a Bad Idea

#101

Post by TheDong » Thu, Oct 22, 2020, 6:07 PM UTC

bdangubic wrote: post #44

RivieraKid wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? (I mostly agree but it's not a strong opinion)

If my wealth comes from owning a percentage of a company (say I own 30% of AMZN) what is the way to tax me other than taking my shares, i.e. the Gov would take certain percentage of my shares? And if we go that route how many years would it go by before Gov owned majority of shares of most companies? Lots of people scream that we should tax the wealthy but I do not follow how you tax someone whose wealth comes from l…

Let's look at jeff bezos for example. He sells over a billion dollars worth of amazon stock each year [0] (those numbers have increased slightly since then actually).

Fine, he pays some of that to the government, and maybe sells slightly more. I don't see the problem.

If, in fact, your wealth only comes from ownership in a company and you have no other source of wealth, then yes you would be encourages to sell your shares to pay the wealth tax.

I don't see why this is a problem. That's kinda the point of a wealth tax, that yes you do get taxed on your wealth.

[0]: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-space-bezos/bezos-is-sell...

Re: Media Owned by Wealthy Are Quick to Tell You Wealth Taxes Are a Bad Idea

#102

Post by DubiousPusher » Thu, Oct 22, 2020, 6:07 PM UTC

EricE wrote: post #38

fair.org? Ha! Confiscating others money is hardly "fair" but here we are.

You take for granted that private property and capital accumulation is inherently "fair".

Many people do, it is the organizing principle of most modern civilization after all but that does not mean it is indeed inherently "fair" or "good".

Re: Media Owned by Wealthy Are Quick to Tell You Wealth Taxes Are a Bad Idea

#103

Post by sharemywin » Thu, Oct 22, 2020, 6:07 PM UTC

BunsanSpace wrote: post #64

we already have a wealth tax. Have cash? Inflation (cheapens govt debt) Own Property? Property Taxes. Own Equity? capital gains on realization of profits Get Dividends? Dividends are taxed. Income? Taxed. Virtual every form of wealth is taxed. The question should be how much should it be taxed, and enforcement. A wealth tax is a nice song and dance around the issue and cannot be reasonably implemented hence why it's…

say you had a 100m in stock. did nothing but borrow against it until you die. how much tax would you pay. as long as you borrow less than your stock appreciates.

Re: Media Owned by Wealthy Are Quick to Tell You Wealth Taxes Are a Bad Idea

#104

Post by newfriend » Thu, Oct 22, 2020, 6:08 PM UTC

mikepurvis wrote: post #27

muststopmyths wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My guess: because they hope to be wealthy some day.

A famous formulation of that is: "John Steinbeck once said that socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires."

So tired of reading this quote every time taxes come up like it's some profound statement. I see it so often to ridicule "silly poor people voting for lower taxes".

It's possible for someone to think that it's unfair for some people to pay a huge amount of taxes unfairly, without they themselves thinking "one day I'll be rich".

Re: Media Owned by Wealthy Are Quick to Tell You Wealth Taxes Are a Bad Idea

#105

Post by anthony_romeo » Thu, Oct 22, 2020, 6:08 PM UTC

cpursley wrote: post #78

jostmey wrote: post #17

I’m more concerned about what happens if we don’t start taxing the rich more (in the US). I’m worried about the class divide turning violent

The top 1% of US taxpayers already cover 21% of the share of federal taxes collected with the top 10% covering 48% percent of taxes. The bottom 50% of income earners pay little to no taxes (11%). https://taxfoundation.org/summary-of-the-latest-federal-inco...

Arguably, that itself can be a sign that income inequality is far too high, as 50% of the population doesn't earn enough to pay meaningful amounts of federal tax.

Re: Media Owned by Wealthy Are Quick to Tell You Wealth Taxes Are a Bad Idea

#106

Post by davrosthedalek » Thu, Oct 22, 2020, 6:08 PM UTC

maerF0x0 wrote: post #47

throwaway2048 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its not making the argument that wealth taxes are good because wealthy people oppose them, only that their point of view on the topic is deeply self serving and masquerading as an objective analysis.

> is deeply self serving To the extent that they do it for themselves alone, which is making an assumption about intent. Many wealthy people honestly believe that low taxes drive economic growth that is good for all.

There are also many who approve of a higher income tax (and capital gains) for the wealthy, but reject a wealth tax.

Re: Media Owned by Wealthy Are Quick to Tell You Wealth Taxes Are a Bad Idea

#107

Post by exabrial » Thu, Oct 22, 2020, 6:08 PM UTC

If the US Government were a charity, the rating would be 0-stars. Nearly all tax money is pocketed by special interests. The usual arguments "yeah what about fire and police" account for a rounding error in tax collection while the vast majority is simply pocketed by friends of your elected officials.

You know what'd be nice? Consent. I'd like to be consented before my value is forceful removed from me. I'd like to pick an efficient charity to give this money to.

Re: Media Owned by Wealthy Are Quick to Tell You Wealth Taxes Are a Bad Idea

#108

Post by zlynx » Thu, Oct 22, 2020, 6:08 PM UTC

iaw wrote: post #48

EricE wrote: post #38

fair.org? Ha! Confiscating others money is hardly "fair" but here we are.

Not contributing fairly to the society that allowed one to accrue a large volume of wealth is also "unfair."

"contributing fairly" sounds good but is meaningless. There are too many competing definitions of "fair."

Re: Media Owned by Wealthy Are Quick to Tell You Wealth Taxes Are a Bad Idea

#109

Post by Hitorinaka » Thu, Oct 22, 2020, 6:08 PM UTC

commandlinefan wrote: post #2

I'm neither wealthy nor the media and I believe that wealth taxes are a bad idea, too.

Wealth taxes that are too high in relation to peers (other countries/states) will often lead to brain drain, capital flight and others. From an individual's perspective, many will see it as a disincentive in starting something new, you may also be incentivized to borrow more money to ensure the leverage is high enough to limit taxation and optimize current quality of life. Your decision to leave assets for your next of kin can also become distorted and you may feel encouraged to spend the money now (on them and otherwise) as opposed to getting tax fleeced.

Many other things need to be in place and fully functional for a high wealth tax to work and even then, it is likely to work for a 10 to 30 year period, only to serve as a dragging anchor at a later stage. I would argue that many of the challenges in Europe from a technological innovation standpoint, can be partially derived in high taxation.

It is also difficult to determine what is the right amount of taxation while taking into account the importance of incentive mechanisms. Also, at what point do tax hikes stop?

Some of the key real solutions to many of societies challenges is to have its populace be more active in all of its inner working, helping them to better understand the constraints and opportunities as opposed to being a bunch of people getting of top of their little soap box. There is also a major need for strong reforms to tackle nepotism, corruption and laziness at all levels of society.

Re: Media Owned by Wealthy Are Quick to Tell You Wealth Taxes Are a Bad Idea

#110

Post by LambdaComplex » Thu, Oct 22, 2020, 6:08 PM UTC

maxharris wrote: post #86

Wealth taxes are a bad idea because they target everyone with wealth, regardless of the actual views they hold, regardless of the degree to which they have personally contributed to the collapse we are facing. The real inequality we have today is being perpetuated by outdated regulations, primarily from the 1930s. It's also being perpetuated by people that invest in Warren Buffet-style "value" stocks, which extract a…

> we have to stop making it illegal to build enough homes for people that need them

There's already enough homes (in the USA, at least) to house all the homeless people in the country. Unfortunately, giving homes away wouldn't be profitable, and profit is all that seems to matter.