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Will SARS-CoV-2 become endemic?

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101–106 of 106 posts

Re: Will SARS-CoV-2 become endemic?

#101
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why stop fighting when it becomes just a cold? The common cold costs billions (not to mention making people miserable).

But would you consider it reasonable to force people into lockdowns and quarantines for the cold?

Lockdowns absolutely not: the costs outweigh the benefits, and there’s no potential vaccine on the horizon.

Quarantines, maybe. The vulnerable already have to shield themselves as protection, and the economic losses are pretty steep before you factor in the human cost of suffering.

Re: Will SARS-CoV-2 become endemic?

#102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are killing people to save others. It's the trolley problem, except we don't even know how many we save and how many we kill.

Not even the trolly problems. These people do not have to die if we have equitable wellbeing support to pull them along this lockdown.

But we don't.

Re: Will SARS-CoV-2 become endemic?

#103
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don't do that. Nobody said not to fight it, we do fight colds already, it just wouldn't be news anymore. Did you know there are four coronaviruses that cause cold-like symptoms? I didn't, because I didn't really care. That's all Op is saying.

> Please don't do that. What do you mean? Don't do what? Please don't make that argument your making? Please don't make your argument in that way? Please don't argue at all? Please don't ask questions? Literally, all the comment you responded to did what ask a question to invite further discussion of an idea they were interested in. When I hear "please don't do that" I picture kids pulling up flowers in someone's yar…

What I pointed out. Please don’t say someone said something they didn’t say and is arguing a point they didn’t make.

Re: Will SARS-CoV-2 become endemic?

#104
post #46
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why stop fighting when it becomes just a cold? The common cold costs billions (not to mention making people miserable).

Please don't do that. Nobody said not to fight it, we do fight colds already, it just wouldn't be news anymore. Did you know there are four coronaviruses that cause cold-like symptoms? I didn't, because I didn't really care. That's all Op is saying.

we do fight colds already, it just wouldn't be news anymore.

In recent history we haven’t bothered fighting colds at all and this attitude has not served us well. Up until March 2020 it was socially acceptable to roll into your office, church, or school coughing and sneezing everywhere. In 2020 we even had to produce public health videos to teach people how to wash their hands and why it was a good idea to do so! This was taking place in high income, well educated countries that would consider themselves technologically advanced and socially sophisticated.

That casual posture is obviously gone for a generation, but what underpinned it was our collective delusion that we had conquered infectious disease while all visibly ill from all the infectious disease circulating in the population every year.

The research efforts are interesting because it seems to be a very tough vaccine candidate due in part to the sheer number of viruses and strains you’re dealing with. I’ve not seen the financials, but I’d be surprised if we were spending anything like the estimated costs of tens of billions of dollars on finding a solution. I guess it’s a case where the costs are borne in a very diffuse way but the solutions have to come out of specific research budgets. Why bother researching and getting approval for a vaccine, when you can just sell people over the counter snake oil like cough medicine?

We don’t have to shrug when our low baseline expectations for life get even worse. We can and must do better if we believe in progress.

Re: Will SARS-CoV-2 become endemic?

#105
post #99
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Can't remember where I read it, but the idea was that using existing vaccine tech to knock out pretty much any virus is a major financial undertaking. Now multiply that by 100x, or however many common-cold-causing viruses exist. It seems quite strange to me that this should be multiplicative. There should be some economics of scale, especially for viruses from the same family. (It is also quite strange to me that t…

There are no coronavirus vaccines; prior to the year 2002 that’s because coronaviruses were relatively harmless in humans and thus not deemed a threat. Post 2002 it is because we didn’t heed the warning of SARS and invest seriously in creating one (and it’s hard to develop a vaccine for a disease that isn’t around anymore). For the “common cold” vaccine, you’re looking at hundreds of strains across about nine types o…

> For the “common cold” vaccine, you’re looking at hundreds of strains across about nine types of virus, so a pretty tall order using traditional approaches.

A couple of hundred does seems tall at all, especially when it is basically just 9 different types. It seems to me that this is easy to scale once a general approach is found.

But since there is basically no progress on the common cold, I assume it is just not solved for any of these families, so the total number of strains or families doesnt matter anyway. Or it is mutating faster than we do anything. But I dont get how a small number like couple of hundred should matter - at least from the technogical perspective.

Re: Will SARS-CoV-2 become endemic?

#106
post #104
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don't do that. Nobody said not to fight it, we do fight colds already, it just wouldn't be news anymore. Did you know there are four coronaviruses that cause cold-like symptoms? I didn't, because I didn't really care. That's all Op is saying.

we do fight colds already, it just wouldn't be news anymore. In recent history we haven’t bothered fighting colds at all and this attitude has not served us well. Up until March 2020 it was socially acceptable to roll into your office, church, or school coughing and sneezing everywhere. In 2020 we even had to produce public health videos to teach people how to wash their hands and why it was a good idea to do so! Thi…

Then there's the counter-argument that within reason having a low level of infectious diseases hanging around isn't such a bad thing. It trains our immune systems, preparing them for more serious attacks. I honestly don't know how good an idea that is, but it seems plausible and Ive heard it from medical professionals.

At the medical science level, we absolutely do investigate common cold pathogens and others, and have developed a battery of techniques, all of which were very rapidly brought to bear on Covid-19.

Where I think we do need to do a lot better is in international co-operation and co-ordination. In the USA the CDC needs competent leadership again, they need their seat back at the US national Security Council and they need their international outreach budget back. Europe needs to develop their own equivalent to the CDC that's well funded and effective.

The WHO also needs thoroughly upgrading. I think given the way national governments have ensured the WHO stays a political football, they actually overall do a lot of good. A lot of nations are thoroughly reliant on them for advice and technical assistance, but clearly their chronic dependence on the good will of nation states has severely compromised their ability to act as an independent and effective organisation. They need more funding and more independence, not bullying by China and the USA to serve domestic agendas.

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