Cameras and secret trackers reveal where Amazon returns end up • Hacker News Board

Re: Cameras and secret trackers reveal where Amazon returns end up

#101

Post by coding123 » Sat, Oct 10, 2020, 6:12 PM UTC

sokoloff wrote: post #3

> 30 to 40 per cent of all online purchases are sent back That seems almost an order of magnitude higher than I’d expect. Setting aside kids shoes (which probably do get 50% returned), I can’t imagine sending back even 5% of my online purchases, let alone 30-40%. I think I’ve sent back exactly 1 Amazon order in the last year, out of nearly 100.

I was very surprised about my own Amazon usage today...

For the year 2020 (so far):

Amazon Orders: 231

Returns: 38

Return Percent: 16.45

Based on Gmail search:

amazon "your refund" after:2020/01/01 before:2021/01/01

For the year 2019:

Amazon Orders: 32

Returns: 11

Return Percent: 34.3

Based on Gmail search:

amazon "your refund" after:2019/01/01 before:2020/01/01

A couple of things to note, 2019 I was mostly buying and returning bras, shorts and shirts that my wife was trying on, because Target and other stores stopped carrying some of her favorites. Some of these clothing purchases actually spilled into early 2020.

2020 I am returning things a lot less because it's a lot of Pantry orders.

Re: Cameras and secret trackers reveal where Amazon returns end up

#102

Post by pjc50 » Sat, Oct 10, 2020, 6:12 PM UTC

gambiting wrote: post #84

nextos wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've also stopped buying at Amazon after 15 years. Even consumables and small items are problematic. Just in the last year, I encountered many issues including: * Showerhead that came without box, and clearly used. It still had a lot of water inside! * Underwear from a brand that sells items inside a sealed bag and discards returns came used, without bag (yuck!) * A module of Samsung RAM had visible wear signs and di…

I'm always shocked when I read these comments on HN. I swear it must be just the American Amazon that's so shit, because I literally never had any problems nor know anyone with these problems here in UK. Just this year I'm on 108 orders and counting, every single one of them was fine, working, definitely not used, definitely not counterfeit and delivered within 1 day as promised with Prime. Last year I've had 140 ord…

The UK has working consumer protection and a small claims court. America mostly doesn't.

Re: Cameras and secret trackers reveal where Amazon returns end up

#103

Post by burntoutfire » Sat, Oct 10, 2020, 6:13 PM UTC

vladvasiliu wrote: post #33

x87678r wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have friends who send back nearly everything. Not sure about shoe size? Order 3 sizes, keep the one you like and send back the other two (or return all 3 if you dont like it). Want a shirt? Order 5 and keep the ones you like, if any.

I'm sure there are people who abuse the system, but for you example of clothes, I'm not surprised there is a high number of returns. Last year I bought two Levis jeans at the same time. One the exact same model, color and size as the one I was wearing which was worn out, the other a different color (figured I could use having two pairs of jeans). None fit me correctly. The model I had already was too big, the other t…

I wouldn't even call it abuse. Buying clothes or shoes is in many cases impossible without trying them on. Also, you can't really see and feel the fabric before it's arrived. Hence, many companies have explicit free and easy return policies to encourage people to order a lot of stuff and keep only what they like. Not very eco-friendly, I know.

Re: Cameras and secret trackers reveal where Amazon returns end up

#104

Post by isbvhodnvemrwvn » Sat, Oct 10, 2020, 6:13 PM UTC

roywiggins wrote: post #76

x87678r wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have friends who send back nearly everything. Not sure about shoe size? Order 3 sizes, keep the one you like and send back the other two (or return all 3 if you dont like it). Want a shirt? Order 5 and keep the ones you like, if any.

It's not like the shoes are going out the door without them knowing that the same person just ordered three pairs in different sizes and is almost certainly going to be returning two of them. It's simply not possible to be sure about a shoe size sight unseen. Even within the same brand of shoe, fit varies. I have to assume a very high returns rate is totally expected by online shoe retailers (and for that matter offl…

Even with the fancy foot scans I frequently have to do returns because the shape of my left heel is different than the shape of my right one. The overall length and with of the shoe as well as the height of the foot fits well, but the heel counter shape can cause a lot of trouble. I tend to buy another pair in the same model and size when I find a decent shoe, but obviously this doesn't work across models and brands. Last month I did 3 returns until I found an acceptable model.

Re: Cameras and secret trackers reveal where Amazon returns end up

#105

Post by jlokier » Sat, Oct 10, 2020, 6:15 PM UTC

winkeltripel wrote: post #53

decko wrote: post #21

> Fulfillment by Amazon Donations, which Amazon says will help sellers send returns directly to charities instead of disposing of them. So the seller ends up having to take the loss?

But they at least get a tax write off for a percentage of the value of the donation.

No. It's not "at least they get a tax write off", because that implies a benefit, such as when paying profits to a charity you want to support anyway.

With these returned items, the seller just loses money and has a lower income than if they could resell them.

Their tax goes down because of returns, but that's just normal income tax because their income goes down.

If they didn't donate the goods, just threw them away, they would pay exactly the same tax. So there is no tax benefit gained from donating.

Re: Cameras and secret trackers reveal where Amazon returns end up

#106

Post by rakamotog » Sat, Oct 10, 2020, 6:15 PM UTC

coding123 wrote: post #101

sokoloff wrote: post #3

> 30 to 40 per cent of all online purchases are sent back That seems almost an order of magnitude higher than I’d expect. Setting aside kids shoes (which probably do get 50% returned), I can’t imagine sending back even 5% of my online purchases, let alone 30-40%. I think I’ve sent back exactly 1 Amazon order in the last year, out of nearly 100.

I was very surprised about my own Amazon usage today... For the year 2020 (so far): Amazon Orders: 231 Returns: 38 Return Percent: 16.45 Based on Gmail search: amazon "your refund" after:2020/01/01 before:2021/01/01 For the year 2019: Amazon Orders: 32 Returns: 11 Return Percent: 34.3 Based on Gmail search: amazon "your refund" after:2019/01/01 before:2020/01/01 A couple of things to note, 2019 I was mostly buying an…

Refund can be for orders which they were unable to deliver. Example:- Groceries. I get refund if even 1 out of 30 items is not available, that isn't a return. Are these 38 in 2020 all returns?

Re: Cameras and secret trackers reveal where Amazon returns end up

#107

Post by obmelvin » Sat, Oct 10, 2020, 6:15 PM UTC

polskibus wrote: post #94

gambiting wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm always shocked when I read these comments on HN. I swear it must be just the American Amazon that's so shit, because I literally never had any problems nor know anyone with these problems here in UK. Just this year I'm on 108 orders and counting, every single one of them was fine, working, definitely not used, definitely not counterfeit and delivered within 1 day as promised with Prime. Last year I've had 140 ord…

Amazon has prob. lower market share in e-commerce in EU than in USA. Competition (and more pro-consumer regulation) helps.

Eh, I mean I understand your comment in general, but I think it's a reasonable hypothesis that the discrepancy could be that Amazon doesn't have a large enough market share in other markets for these issues to have occurred (i.e. EU small sellers have yet to start abusing the marketplace to the extent done in the US). I certainly recognize that I don't have data to indicate either way - but my point is that the lack of problem in UK/EU doesn't necessarily mean Amazon is responding better to competition.

Re: Cameras and secret trackers reveal where Amazon returns end up

#108

Post by bigfudge » Sat, Oct 10, 2020, 6:16 PM UTC

nextos wrote: post #75

dorchadas wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is really why I hesitate to buy clothes through Amazon, even though I wear a size that they have in stock easier than Kohl's or any of the other department stores (plus, I'm in the middle of losing weight, so I'm in between sizes). It's quite frustrating, especially with fitting rooms closed currently in my state.

My solution to this has been to order denim, tees, chinos, etc made to measure. It's slow, it's a bit more expensive, but you get a better fit and you don't need to worry about all this mess. Plus, I support local people.

Where do you order these?

Re: Cameras and secret trackers reveal where Amazon returns end up

#109

Post by CodeWriter23 » Sat, Oct 10, 2020, 6:19 PM UTC

an_opabinia wrote: post #19

CodeWriter23 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO it's definitely exaggerated. If you're selling through Fulfillment by Amazon (as I did for years), the merchant is charged for the return shipping cost, which is often UPS Retail Pricing. Considering the inbound shipping costs to the fulfillment center, the storage and handling costs, hard cost of the finished good, the cost of returning the item from Amazon to the merchant if it is deemed to no longer be "New" (…

> a 30-40% return rate would make one's business unviable at best and bankrupt at worst. Amazon's retail business has poor profitability.

"Amazon's" Retail Business is great. They have third parties supply most of the inventory and take most of the risk. And then they collect the metrics and make their own knock-offs of the clear winners.

Re: Cameras and secret trackers reveal where Amazon returns end up

#110

Post by kortilla » Sat, Oct 10, 2020, 6:20 PM UTC

gambiting wrote: post #84

nextos wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've also stopped buying at Amazon after 15 years. Even consumables and small items are problematic. Just in the last year, I encountered many issues including: * Showerhead that came without box, and clearly used. It still had a lot of water inside! * Underwear from a brand that sells items inside a sealed bag and discards returns came used, without bag (yuck!) * A module of Samsung RAM had visible wear signs and di…

I'm always shocked when I read these comments on HN. I swear it must be just the American Amazon that's so shit, because I literally never had any problems nor know anyone with these problems here in UK. Just this year I'm on 108 orders and counting, every single one of them was fine, working, definitely not used, definitely not counterfeit and delivered within 1 day as promised with Prime. Last year I've had 140 ord…

Well I think this is just survivorship bias. Nobody really feels compelled to post when they are in the mundane majority of people who didn’t have a bad experience.