Oh man.
Don't make me start on South African salaries. You'll cry.
Programmer salary in mainland Europe?
101–110 of 115 posts
Re: Programmer salary in mainland Europe?
#102Earlier quoted context omitted.
«45K if you have a couple of years of experience» LOL that's interesting because, you know, it's false :) replace «couple» with "more than 5 years" and I will begin to believe you. It's true that in BCN and Madrid things are better, but not that much. And in London you can earn more than 60K per year. Spain is near Poland in salaries, we have tons of people with CS degrees (which doesn't means that they are good at p…
It's not that bad. I rent a 3 bedroom flat for about 850 eur and most of my co-workers rent for between 700 - 900 eur a month. Prices have come way down during the crisis :)
Absolutely true, my 3 bedroom flat rent in the south is now 450 EUR month ;)
Re: Programmer salary in mainland Europe?
#103I'm a developer living in Amsterdam. From what I see around (in job offers and my last two employments), the pay is around 50K EUR per year for a senior position. In the last company I was working there were also developers getting 60K. But they had around 10 years of experience.
Sounds about right. My base salary, no benefits, would be about 58K a year if I worked full-time. This is in Rotterdam, where salaries are slightly lower than in Amsterdam.
Senior ASP.NET developer in Rotterdam (Creative Agency), BICT degree, 6 years experience, 42K
Re: Programmer salary in mainland Europe?
#104You can find that salary for a "senior" position in Utah as well. California salaries are much higher than the average.
Re: Programmer salary in mainland Europe?
#105Dont forget to factor in the welfare and pension differences between EU and USA. I Work in Norway and people in our wider group in the USA get about 20% more salary and a much much cheaper cost of living. That said, I get real universal healthcare, excellent working conditions and employee rights, a state pension and a company pension and good working hours. Dont be too worried about getting paid less in Europe.
Re: Programmer salary in mainland Europe?
#106Earlier quoted context omitted.
I second this. "If you're only in it for the dollars, then avoid!" The usual employe is expected to take all of his 6 weeks (in Germany the minimum is 4 but 6 is standard, in France I think its 8 weeks) of vacation even though there are lots of federal holidays and And yes French food is expensive. But com'on its French food!
That's untrue. In France high responsibility positions have a different status (called "cadre") and there is no such thing as RTT for them (although in very large companies they might happen to actually take them into account): there is practically no weekly limit and it's usually anywhere between 40 to 50 hours a week (known as the "you leave when your work is done"). Holidays are at least (and usually) 5 weeks.
Thanks for clarifying this.
Re: Programmer salary in mainland Europe?
#107I'm pretty sure that IBM Germany wouldn't pay you more either. Guess how shocking I found salaries during my first time in the US ;-) Also, even though taxes in CA are "high", taxes in Germany will prob. be a lot higher. I recently spoke to a Norwegian who just moved here. He couldn't believe that he has to pay more here than back home. >50% including social benefits etc. is standard for a single. However, you have t…
> I'm pretty sure that IBM Germany wouldn't pay you more either. Wrong guess, they do pay more. I worked for IBM R&D Germany right after graduation and my salary was more than 45k, even excluding overtime, which was paid extra. As for Germany, there's also a gap in salary depending on the size of the company you work for. Generally, larger cooperations pay better than smaller ones, so if you're looking to make more m…
Of course, there a huge differences in salaries for the same work, even within a company. Anyway, I know some IBM Germany employees in development/project management who don't make 70k after >10 years of job experience.
Do you have any data to share on how much your senior peers at IBM made? Even public German research labs pay their Phd students >38k after graduation, so your numbers don't surprise me so far.
And many employes don't get paid overtime. They officially have to take vacation, which again is usually not possible due to project pressure. Hence, many vacation days become void after deadlines.
I don't have any good data on this, just what I hear from my peers. So my post is as anecdotal as yours. However, if you look at the Heise report, my numbers are not so far off.
I second your last point, but thats not a German/European uniqueness, right?
Re: Programmer salary in mainland Europe?
#108Earlier quoted context omitted.
How much do you get after taxes?
Around $55K I guess, maybe a little less.
Thanks.
I agree that there are so many things you can hardly put a prize on. Heck, I'm sure for many people living close to Christiania in Kopenhagen is a quality of life they would miss elsewhere.
Re: Programmer salary in mainland Europe?
#109You need money to flourish like everyone else, but you say you're not in it for the money. Then what are you after? Are you prepared to accept that Europe's socialism (taxes and regulation) are the cause of these low wages? Are you even open to asking yourself if this is true? Incidentally, how did you choose "socialist_coder" as your username? Are you trying to be facetious by doing so, or are you serious?
I'm not in it for the money as long as I can keep my current quality of life. I enjoy traveling, eating at nice restaurants, buying gadgets, etc. I remember back when I used to make $65,000 I was not able to do all of those things. I had a lower quality of life. I'm to the point now where I feel like all my monetary problems are solved. I don't want to go backwards, but I also don't think any additional salary increa…
I just re-read pg's essay, "How to Make Wealth": http://paulgraham.com/wealth.html
Have you read this? I think there's plenty in it that might stretch your mind. Here are two paragraphs taken from his essay almost at random:
"I can remember believing, as a child, that if a few rich people had all the money, it left less for everyone else. Many people seem to continue to believe something like this well into adulthood. This fallacy is usually there in the background when you hear someone talking about how x percent of the population have y percent of the wealth. If you plan to start a startup, then whether you realize it or not, you're planning to disprove the Pie Fallacy."
...
"This is why so many of the best programmers are libertarians. In our world, you sink or swim, and there are no excuses. When those far removed from the creation of wealth-- undergraduates, reporters, politicians-- hear that the richest 5% of the people have half the total wealth, they tend to think injustice! An experienced programmer would be more likely to think is that all? The top 5% of programmers probably write 99% of the good software."
Re: Programmer salary in mainland Europe?
#110Your best bet is to go for the fiscal havens in Europe: Luxembourg, Liechtenstein, Swiss. They have really LOWER taxes and banks pay VERY well. As a graduate and competent C# developer you can easily get 65kEUR+ per year + car + meal vouchers working for a service company in Luxembourg. That's a bit more than 3500EUR/month in your pocket with pension + health insurance + unemployment etc paid for. Banks pay MUCH more…
Hi R4cOOn! I've a question about work market in Luxembourg - can I send you an e-mail? (My mail: martain87@gmail.com - please send me your address)