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433% Keyboard

relivesight.com

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Re: 433% Keyboard

#101

Post by JdeBP »

FreeFull wrote: post #52
ardy42 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why are there >3 rows of Fn keys ? Are they all different? Or Are they placed so to quickly access ? It looks like the creator just used whatever random keycaps he had. There are also duplicate arrow keys and duplicates from the navigation cluster (e.g. pgdown). The katakana(?) keys also look like they might be incomplete.

I know that at least Linux does support additional F keys beyond F12, since there used to be computers/keyboards that had them. I'm not sure how having more than 255 keys works out, though, I haven't looked into how USB HID handles it.

There's enough for 65535 different usages in the keyboard page alone, and there are more available in the consumer and system pages. But nowhere near all of those have definitions.

There are defined usages for function keys up to F24, and for all of the dedicated function keys that one could find on Sun and IBM keyboards, such as Stop, Again, ExSel, and CrSel.

Re: 433% Keyboard

#102

Post by JdeBP »

mindslight wrote: post #97
jrockway wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a limited number of scancodes; defined by the USB standard. The annoying thing for keyboards is that the OS controls what scancode maps to what character and that makes it impossible to have certain keys. For example, you can't have an ! key. That is always Shift+1 (with a US layout, that is). QMK and other firmwares will let you make an ! key, but it's implemented by pressing shift, then pressing 1. So you…

Stepping back, why would you actually want the keyboard firmware to have configurable settings and runtime state? xkbcomp (Linux/Xorg) is buggy as hell, but I'd say it's still fundamentally the right abstraction to do this on the host. Configuring a layout on the keyboard is itself the hack, really only encouraged by the recent innovation happening there.

It's been a hack for years, not merely recently. Maltron keyboards used to switch layouts between the "PC" and "Maltron" layouts by the keyboard moving scancodes around, in response to a physical switch at the back of the keyboard, back in the days of PS/2 keyboards.

Re: 433% Keyboard

#103

Post by wyclif »

autocorr wrote: post #94
codezero wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it an Atreus? How do you like that size of keyboard? I'm not too bothered about adopting some chords, but more interested in the general ergonomics / RSI risks.

A DIY custom actually![1] It's a split with 3 x 6 alphas, 3 thumb keys, and a palm key. I really like it but I was already moving in the direction on layout-minimalism on my ErgoDox. You can find a pic of my layout here[2]. Happy to answer any questions about it. On ergonomics and RSI, tough to say whether some of these things make a difference or not. There's no data. The single biggest difference to me is having mu…

In Vim, I would love to be able to map Ctrl-[ (which is what I use instead of Esc to change modes) to Ctrl-thumbkey just to relieve the right pinky. I'm using a standard mechanical TKL layout now. Or maybe just map Esc to a single thumb key.

Re: 433% Keyboard

#104

Post by kps »

htfy96 wrote: post #38
m463 wrote: post #24

I think a better layout might be like an organist, where you have different levels. sort of like this: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8b/Frederik... And they even have keys (modifier keys?) for their feet. They left that off the table (so to speak) hmm... and maybe some sort of suspension system for your arms, so your arms could float over the keyboard sort of like monitor arms keep your monitor sus…

Or if you want just some minor additions, try Sun Oracle Type-7 keyboard which has ~10 keys (including Copy, Paste, Undo, Cut - perfect for Stackoverflow-oriented programming) on the left https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sun_Oracle_type-7_keybo...

Sun keyboards are mushy, though. Unicomp has 122-key Model M keyboards with 10 keys on the left and 24 function keys at the top.

Re: 433% Keyboard

#105

Post by blizdiddy »

AtHeartEngineer wrote: post #90
moron4hire wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you consider that this project actually is a troll?

Did you consider spending your nights and weekends building one to find out?

I'm gonna build one! Ordered two boards immediately. Qmk orthogonal keyboards are trivial to add MIDI to and super fun, I've made a few. I already have the switches. Grand piano range with a bass guitar layout

Re: 433% Keyboard

#106

Post by dafoex »

moron4hire wrote: post #77
ardy42 wrote: post #16

All of the images are now offline (some google drive traffic limit?), but the internet archive managed to capture one : https://web.archive.org/web/20200916174120/https://relivesig... The image itself: https://web.archive.org/web/20200916210058/https://doc-14-a0...

Is this a troll? I mean, why make a custom keyboard with even one pause/break key, let alone... Three?

Multiple print screens, too. I suspect they're just labels and the keys do something different

Re: 433% Keyboard

#107

Post by kps »

jrockway wrote: post #61
na85 wrote: post #46

So can you just bind arbitrary keys to arbitrary characters? Aren't there a limited number of codes (scan codes?) that the keyboard will send out?

There are a limited number of scancodes; defined by the USB standard. The annoying thing for keyboards is that the OS controls what scancode maps to what character and that makes it impossible to have certain keys. For example, you can't have an ! key. That is always Shift+1 (with a US layout, that is). QMK and other firmwares will let you make an ! key, but it's implemented by pressing shift, then pressing 1. So you…

> For example, you can't have an ! key.

I know that was probably just meant as an illustration, but you can have an ‘!’ key — it's 07:00CF “Keypad !”¹.

Linux will ignore it² though, because being Linux they had to NIH their own key codes, and Windows will ignore it³ because it wasn't on the IBM PC keyboard in 1981.

¹ https://www.usb.org/sites/default/files/documents/hut1_12v2....

² https://elixir.bootlin.com/linux/v5.8.9/source/drivers/hid/h...

³ http://download.microsoft.com/download/1/6/1/161ba512-40e2-4...

Re: 433% Keyboard

#108

Post by codezero »

autocorr wrote: post #94
codezero wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it an Atreus? How do you like that size of keyboard? I'm not too bothered about adopting some chords, but more interested in the general ergonomics / RSI risks.

A DIY custom actually![1] It's a split with 3 x 6 alphas, 3 thumb keys, and a palm key. I really like it but I was already moving in the direction on layout-minimalism on my ErgoDox. You can find a pic of my layout here[2]. Happy to answer any questions about it. On ergonomics and RSI, tough to say whether some of these things make a difference or not. There's no data. The single biggest difference to me is having mu…

Thanks for sharing, that’s something else!

Re: 433% Keyboard

#109

Post by russellbeattie »

Two thoughts:

1) For some reason this thing gives me joy. Imagine sitting at work in front of one of these bad boy keyboards! You'd never get interrupted! People would assume you're running a battleship remotely or something!

2) It seems very Soviet. Or at least very 80s Anime - this is the keyboard we should all be using, only each key should light up in disco colors.

Re: 433% Keyboard

#110

Post by m463 »

htfy96 wrote: post #38
m463 wrote: post #24

I think a better layout might be like an organist, where you have different levels. sort of like this: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8b/Frederik... And they even have keys (modifier keys?) for their feet. They left that off the table (so to speak) hmm... and maybe some sort of suspension system for your arms, so your arms could float over the keyboard sort of like monitor arms keep your monitor sus…

Or if you want just some minor additions, try Sun Oracle Type-7 keyboard which has ~10 keys (including Copy, Paste, Undo, Cut - perfect for Stackoverflow-oriented programming) on the left https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sun_Oracle_type-7_keybo...

wow, brings back memories. I never had an oracle version though. I remember being very happy when sun came out with a USB version of their keyboard so I could use it elsewhere. (previous versions had a sun connector)
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