Earlier quoted context omitted.
The whole system is flawed. They should take a look at how Japan has implemented the J-Alert system. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J-Alert Cell broadcast is much more suitable than a stupid app if you want to warn people in a certain area.
Yes, obviously using the phone network is the better idea. But realistically the goal of these projects is not to create a working system. The goal is to create something "new" to leech money off the federal and EU projects, which they succesfully did.
Germany conducts first nationwide emergency warning day in decades
101–110 of 116 posts
Re: Germany conducts first nationwide emergency warning day in decades
#102Tension in Europe is real. This was planned well ahead of pandemics and possibility of war is finally on the table.
Where in Europe is war a possiblilty?
The No-Go zones, expanding and overwhelming law enforcement.
Some place(s) in Sweden come to mind, where they even have an App to rate the loudness of explosions, caused by turf wars of competing groups.
The https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banlieue in France.
There seem to be some similar places in Belgium, and at least one in the Netherlands.
About any https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satellite_city / https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commuter_town with large high-rise https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Housing_estate in Germany.
Do I need to say anything about recent events in some downtowns in the USA?
Re: Germany conducts first nationwide emergency warning day in decades
#103Earlier quoted context omitted.
As someone who lives in The Netherlands I was kind of confused by this post as well. We have a monthly nationwide test of our emergency warning sirens and every so often the cell broadcast system is tested as well. I thought every/most countries did that?
Nope. Some do, some don't. Actually, I haven't heard the Dutch monthly sirens recently. (Or maybe my Monday workplace is just too far from them?)
Re: Germany conducts first nationwide emergency warning day in decades
#104People in The Netherlands are used to this sound, hearing it every first Monday of the month at noon for the last 17 years now. I wonder how effective this will work in case of real trouble. https://www.rijksoverheid.nl/onderwerpen/terrorismebestrijdi...
I kinda figure that if people heard the lunchalarm going off at a different time, they'd just assume it was Monday noon and it'd confuse the rest of their week.
Re: Germany conducts first nationwide emergency warning day in decades
#105Correction to the article: the annual test day will be the second Thursday in September, not always the tenth. I don't understand why Cell Broadcast is not used. Surely many people don't have the app installed? I'd never heard of it and I've lived in this country the whole time it's been available.
I have simply no idea who thought it was a good idea to implement a nation-wide warning system on an app that has ~15k downloads[0]~. We already get warnings through cell broadcast here in Hamburg for the weather (last year we got multiple high wind warnings). I'm very disappointed. [0] https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=de.materna.bbk... Edit: As a commenter pointed out, it has 1M+ downloads. But I'm stil…
Re: Germany conducts first nationwide emergency warning day in decades
#106Earlier quoted context omitted.
This x100. It's an utter catastrophe. We had a fully working siren network (at least across Western Germany), and after the end of the Cold War it all got left to rot to pieces - estimates for rebuilding it are well into the hundreds of millions of euro range. And then the whole radio clusterfuck. AM radio got totally torn down years ago to "cut costs", there's always discussions to dismantle plain old FM radio too a…
I really am struggling to understand why it's a big deal? Honestly asking, what's the thought process behind the worth of maintaing one? TV channels and radio stations will just broadcast a breaking news thing. Websites will have notices. I'm entirely unclear why you'd need an emergency broadcast system? Or place so much emphasis on its importance? What would you use it for? And why would having one that worked over…
Many young people don't even own a radio or TV any more, and even more own one but don't use it regularly.
> Websites will have notices
That assumes that a) the Internet is still up everywhere (by the way, same problem with the apps crap) and b) that people are 24/7 surfing on news websites.
> I'm entirely unclear why you'd need an emergency broadcast system? Or place so much emphasis on its importance?
To announce there is something going on and people to have a look at the TV/radio for more information. That's all.
> And why would having one that worked over AM or even FM be worth anything? People don't buy those radios any more. What difference does it make?
AM radios are incredibly cheap to build - all you need is a loop, a tunable capacitor, a diode, a fixed capacitor and an earphone. When I was a kid I had one as a "build it yourself" kit for children. FM radios are more complex but are literally everywhere - many cellphones have them, virtually every car built after the early 50s, kitchen appliances, bathroom radios, classic radios... DAB/DAB+ radios are relatively new, in fact they are only required to be present in cars after end of this year. And in contrast to AM/FM it is almost impossible to build one out of basic components yourself.
> What you're describing sounds like a massive white elephant that was probably worthless even in the cold war. A proverbial safety blanket.
There's more need than just a war for an EBS. Stuff like "the power plant nearby is leaking radioactive gas", "the industrial plants are on fire, close your windows", "there's an earthquake predicted, cover yourself", "flooding immanent" or "active terrorist case with a shooter on the run, stay indoors" is some things that I can easily imagine.
Re: Germany conducts first nationwide emergency warning day in decades
#107Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I don't understand why Cell Broadcast is not used Because of utterly dumb people in charge: https://www.spiegel.de/panorama/gesellschaft/warntag-zum-ziv... > Unger: Ja, die Niederlande zum Beispiel setzen auf dieses Cell-Broadcast-System. Wir haben davon Abstand genommen, weil die Mobilfunknetze - wie man etwa an Silvester sieht - im Fall der Fälle nicht ausreichen. Hinzu kommt ein datenschutzrechtliches Problem. W…
I'd say it's the reverse. "Daten sind das neue Gold / Öl!" Because of this they don't use somehing like cell broadcast, but an app-based approach. They just don't dare to say so in public, or don't care at all. Do you honestly expect anything competent from any of the current talking heads, making appearances in the mainstream of the presstitutes catering to the oh so sensitive public? (Yes, Yes, I know, the German s…
Jeez. No need to resort to far-right vocabulary!
As for the rest of your point, I'm sure you remember "die Antwort auf diese Frage könnte die Bevölkerung verunsichern"...
Re: Germany conducts first nationwide emergency warning day in decades
#108Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, obviously using the phone network is the better idea. But realistically the goal of these projects is not to create a working system. The goal is to create something "new" to leech money off the federal and EU projects, which they succesfully did.
Why is that the better idea? What if it is hacked/DDOSed, or something?
Re: Germany conducts first nationwide emergency warning day in decades
#109Earlier quoted context omitted.
I really am struggling to understand why it's a big deal? Honestly asking, what's the thought process behind the worth of maintaing one? TV channels and radio stations will just broadcast a breaking news thing. Websites will have notices. I'm entirely unclear why you'd need an emergency broadcast system? Or place so much emphasis on its importance? What would you use it for? And why would having one that worked over…
> TV channels and radio stations will just broadcast a breaking news thing. Many young people don't even own a radio or TV any more, and even more own one but don't use it regularly. > Websites will have notices That assumes that a) the Internet is still up everywhere (by the way, same problem with the apps crap) and b) that people are 24/7 surfing on news websites. > I'm entirely unclear why you'd need an emergency…
Total communications collapse - It would have to be over night and total for there to be ANY worth to FM/AM radio. It won't be. It's seems unrealisitic to pretend some sort of Walking Dead scenario would ever be real. If it did happen, the government would also somehow have to still be magically in control of the FM/AM broadcasters.
Urgent Alert - The governments around the world have been organising nationwide lockdowns virtually overnight using existing channels. I just don't see much value even if there were something 'urgent', as it's clear people get alerted pretty quickly about this stuff.
Re: Germany conducts first nationwide emergency warning day in decades
#110Earlier quoted context omitted.
> TV channels and radio stations will just broadcast a breaking news thing. Many young people don't even own a radio or TV any more, and even more own one but don't use it regularly. > Websites will have notices That assumes that a) the Internet is still up everywhere (by the way, same problem with the apps crap) and b) that people are 24/7 surfing on news websites. > I'm entirely unclear why you'd need an emergency…
You're mixing two arguments, one about total communications collapse and the FM/Radio, one about immediate danger and the sirens. Total communications collapse - It would have to be over night and total for there to be ANY worth to FM/AM radio. It won't be. It's seems unrealisitic to pretend some sort of Walking Dead scenario would ever be real. If it did happen, the government would also somehow have to still be mag…
Just how often did we have widespread Internet outages because someone fucked up a BGP entry again? It's incredibly easy to barf up the Internet, all you need is a way to put crap in the global BGP database. Terrorists, nation-scale actors, cybercriminals all have this ability. In contrast, an emergency AM/FM radio service can be done without anything connected to the Internet - plug a microphone in the input line of the radio signal generator and you are on air.
Also, power outages are not unheard of, even in Germany. As said, FM radio does not require much power to receive it.