Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19 • Hacker News Board

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#101

Post by owenmarshall » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 8:24 PM UTC

WWLink wrote: post #74

ll931110 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is, people without children are told (or required) to pick up the workload left behind when the coworkers having children taking (multiple) weeks off. For once or twice that might be okay, but if became a chronic problem, no wonder they are not happy.

Yeah that's the "they have x, why don't i?" attitude that causes a lot of problems. It should be an "everyone should have x!" attitude instead. At the end of the day, everyone's human, so there should be a little bit of slack in the staffing - long term - so that when someone's unavailable, nobody is drowning.

> At the end of the day, everyone's human, so there should be a little bit of slack in the staffing - long term - so that when someone's unavailable, nobody is drowning.

I once as a very junior programmer asked a lead why we kept planning 75% of our capacity every month when we were hitting - and exceeding - our deliverables like clockwork.

Then one month we had to do a death march to build features that had some $$$ tied to them. Did I ever learn why a little slack was critical.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#102

Post by grillvogel » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 8:24 PM UTC

save_ferris wrote: post #10

This is one of the biggest reasons I’ve chosen to forego parenthood. I can’t imagine trying to carve out a solid career in tech while being a parent. I’m sure there are so many here on HN that will say it’s not so hard, but employer expectations have historically been incredibly high at companies I’ve worked for, to the point that sacrificing one’s personal life is pretty much expected (although never explicitly stat…

so the solution is that everyone should focus on career and not have kids? that seems like a great long term strategy for society

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#103

Post by 627467 » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 8:24 PM UTC

ll931110 wrote: post #12

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #4

I am a middle-aged adult with no children who's worked at tech firms for the past couple decades. To be honest, the "resentment" of those without children have for "benefits" those with children get strikes me as extremely selfish, immature and displaying a total lack of empathy. This is time off specifically to take care of children, something now that has become exceedingly more difficult in Covid times. What's nex…

The problem is, people without children are told (or required) to pick up the workload left behind when the coworkers having children taking (multiple) weeks off. For once or twice that might be okay, but if became a chronic problem, no wonder they are not happy.

Would anyone hate to "pickup workload" from anyone else for any other reason? I don't know: maybe colleague goes on PTO, maybe colleague is sick, maybe colleague isn't as experienced on doing something and takes longer, maybe colleague has a disability and not everything is in place to offset the handicap...etc

If the problem is chronic isn't that a stronger indication that you're facing a management problem?

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#104

Post by doopy-loopy2 » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 8:24 PM UTC

Shivetya wrote: post #23

Isn't it just bizarre how people can have children and not expect it to disrupt their lives. They are children, they require your engagement, this is part of the deal. Tech companies should offer the same time off to all employees whether they have children or not. Children should not be allowed to be bargaining chip to obtain more from others. Your choice. To be honest having children out weighs any negative impact…

This. The right way to do it is to offer ALL employees the same time off/benefits.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#105

Post by purple-again » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 8:24 PM UTC

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #4

I am a middle-aged adult with no children who's worked at tech firms for the past couple decades. To be honest, the "resentment" of those without children have for "benefits" those with children get strikes me as extremely selfish, immature and displaying a total lack of empathy. This is time off specifically to take care of children, something now that has become exceedingly more difficult in Covid times. What's nex…

I will guess the sentiment is common to people who get upset when their coworkers get to take cigarette breaks and they don’t. The perceived unfairness of them getting a benefit you want (10 minute break every hour hanging out behind the store) compounded by the feeling that they are the better one because smoking is a bad thing anyway so why am I being “punished” for making the right choice?

Those of us with parents understand the other commenters point about what’s next “getting upset about cancer patients going to the doctor” because yeah...we love our children very much. Childless people can be forgiven for thinking that the time is more akin to sitting around the table playing a board game with everyone laughing and having a great time so they are resentful that you are getting a benefit in the form of extra time off and for a lot of them probably compounded by the feeling that they made the better noble decision by having no kids.

In both cases the business is letting it happen (smoke breaks and child care) for really only one reason. It makes more business sense to accommodate the issue then it does to try and fight it when the cause is societal and pervasive.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#106

Post by WWLink » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 8:25 PM UTC

icelancer wrote: post #64

strictnein wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neither. The failure is with the team's manager. The team's leadership should have reduced the workload of the team. It starts at the top. I work at a (non-tech) Fortune 50 and the message from the CEO on down has been the same: take vacation, take care of your family, some priorities/projects for this year will not be met and that is fine.

>> The team's leadership should have reduced the workload of the team. This isn't always possible, especially given the target businesses that hang out here. This is just evading a tough question.

Yes it is. They should hire another person.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#107

Post by Kalium » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 8:25 PM UTC

ActorNightly wrote: post #80

strictnein wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neither. The failure is with the team's manager. The team's leadership should have reduced the workload of the team. It starts at the top. I work at a (non-tech) Fortune 50 and the message from the CEO on down has been the same: take vacation, take care of your family, some priorities/projects for this year will not be met and that is fine.

Thats nice and all for a big established company. Smaller companies dont have this luxury, because execution is everything. The issue overall shouldnt be with extra workload, but with rewards. People without kids shouldnt be angry at having to pick up the slack, thats normal part of any business, but they def have the right to be angry at the management if they dont get rewarded for it

It's true of small companies too. If you don't manage well, there are negative consequences.

Is it possible that what's changed is the price of good leadership?

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#108

Post by d3ntb3ev1l » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 8:25 PM UTC

ll931110 wrote: post #12

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #4

I am a middle-aged adult with no children who's worked at tech firms for the past couple decades. To be honest, the "resentment" of those without children have for "benefits" those with children get strikes me as extremely selfish, immature and displaying a total lack of empathy. This is time off specifically to take care of children, something now that has become exceedingly more difficult in Covid times. What's nex…

The problem is, people without children are told (or required) to pick up the workload left behind when the coworkers having children taking (multiple) weeks off. For once or twice that might be okay, but if became a chronic problem, no wonder they are not happy.

And this is a fact you have established from what data?

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#109

Post by pojzon » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 8:25 PM UTC

codemac wrote: post #26

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #4

I am a middle-aged adult with no children who's worked at tech firms for the past couple decades. To be honest, the "resentment" of those without children have for "benefits" those with children get strikes me as extremely selfish, immature and displaying a total lack of empathy. This is time off specifically to take care of children, something now that has become exceedingly more difficult in Covid times. What's nex…

> cancer patient gets extra time off so why don't I? In my experience they actually don't, and they aren't paid during the same period either. They are forced to take medical leave, and receive significantly reduced pay.

> and receive significantly reduced pay.

That depends on the country you work in. In Poland you get 80% of normal pay which tbh is a really good deal.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#110

Post by burlesona » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 8:26 PM UTC

save_ferris wrote: post #10

This is one of the biggest reasons I’ve chosen to forego parenthood. I can’t imagine trying to carve out a solid career in tech while being a parent. I’m sure there are so many here on HN that will say it’s not so hard, but employer expectations have historically been incredibly high at companies I’ve worked for, to the point that sacrificing one’s personal life is pretty much expected (although never explicitly stat…

From having worked in a different industry before tech, I would say the tech industry is a lot more accommodating than most industries when it comes to whatever employees care about in their personal lives, including parenting.

It's totally fine to not want kids, and nobody should be having kids because they feel pressured to or anything like that.

But most people do want to have kids, and if that is the case, deciding not to have them so you can focus on your career alone is probably not a wise choice. Raising children is a deeply rewarding experience that (assuming good health) lasts your entire lifetime, much longer than your career.

In general, in the west in particular, we often let ourselves be too focused on the short-term material world (how much stuff can I buy, how can I keep my costs low), and not enough on the important immaterial things like relationships and experiences that are more than just numbers in a bank account. Long-term that's a recipe for unhappiness.