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Head of Danish intelligence suspended after whistleblowers hand over information

bbc.com

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Re: Head of Danish intelligence suspended after whistleblowers hand over information

#101

Post by KSteffensen »

gostsamo wrote: post #39
tpmx wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What kind of targets is he accused of targetting?

Are there "kinds" that are not covered by the law and are more okay to have their rights abused?

The intelligence agency involved here is the military intelligence as opposed to the police intelligence. Think CIA vs FBI.

The military intelligence are allowed to do whatever it takes to defend against foreign powers, but they are not allowed to gather intelligence on Danish citizens. If they uncover something that involved danish citizens or internal threats in the course of their work they are supposed to hand it over to the police intelligence service. As I understand part of the scandal is that this has not happened, compounded by active measures to cover things up towards the oversight committee.

Re: Head of Danish intelligence suspended after whistleblowers hand over information

#102

Post by tgv »

contingencies wrote: post #73
tgv wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Number of people working for intelligence services in my country: around 2000. Number of people working in education: 342100. It won't make a dent.

What are the budgets?

Intelligence: €150M - €250M (estimates are bit unclear) Education: € 30B

Re: Head of Danish intelligence suspended after whistleblowers hand over information

#103

Post by wojciii »

gostsamo wrote: post #54
nabla9 wrote: post #21

Intelligence agencies in Nordic countries are really small, just few hundreds people per agency and limited budgets. Even if they go rouge, what they can do is limited. Number of people in the field is even smaller. This creates problems of it's own because their counterparts quickly learn to recognize their faces. For comparison, FBI Counterintelligence Division alone has 1-2 people per 10,000 Americans. Add differe…

The US is invading, bombing or financing a civil war in a random country every few years, while Denmark are at the corner of the map. Are you going to compare the threat models of the two?

Yeah .. but we (I'm Danish by citizenship) don't apologize because our newspaper prints satirical drawings of some prophet.

The threat model is different. No terrorist attacks of serious kind were performed as of yet but plans were found for terrorist attacks in Copenhagen. Something akin to what happened in Germany. The threat seem real.

Re: Head of Danish intelligence suspended after whistleblowers hand over information

#104

Post by dontcarethrow2 »

jessaustin wrote: post #95
dontcarethrow2 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This safeguarding is likely what is keeping us in danger. We don't have to pretend we are policing the world anymore, enough time has gone by to be able to say it's mainly modern day imperialism. We can work on our defense on this side of the planet without outlining 'the enemy' with outposts and guns pointed at them for 'our defense'.

Obviously GP is ironic and really agrees with you. "Outspend ourselves"? Does this phrase mean anything? Not even the war pigs are this silly.

And I was agreeing with them, just translating it into my own rant. Excuse me, but when I hear you smarties(not you specifically, threads lately in general) picking up pitchforks in the name of freedom, you will hear the silly squeal. And unfortunately, the 'war pigs' seem to be the sharpest in the shed by far.

Re: Head of Danish intelligence suspended after whistleblowers hand over information

#105

Post by [deleted] »

legerdemain wrote: post #62
jessaustin wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a seriously nutty belief, that you claim to have. This year the increase in our military spending was bigger than Russia's entire military spending. We could cut our military budget in half and still dwarf China's.

Our armed forces are safeguarding Americans from a worldwide foe that could show up anywhere on the globe. To beat the world, we have to outspend the rest of the world combined on defense. Perhaps the greatest danger to American defense is insider threats. If the looming danger from insider threats is stark enough, we will absolutely need to find a way to outspend ourselves on defense.

[deleted]

Re: Head of Danish intelligence suspended after whistleblowers hand over information

#106

Post by gostsamo »

wojciii wrote: post #103
gostsamo wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US is invading, bombing or financing a civil war in a random country every few years, while Denmark are at the corner of the map. Are you going to compare the threat models of the two?

Yeah .. but we (I'm Danish by citizenship) don't apologize because our newspaper prints satirical drawings of some prophet. The threat model is different. No terrorist attacks of serious kind were performed as of yet but plans were found for terrorist attacks in Copenhagen. Something akin to what happened in Germany. The threat seem real.

Did the police have to break the law to stop those attacks? Because the question is not if a country should have a counterintelligence service, but what legal tools it should be given, whether it should be under judicial control when using them, and how to control it so that it does not abuse the powers (both legal and physical) it is given.

Re: Head of Danish intelligence suspended after whistleblowers hand over information

#107

Post by vmilner »

ummwhat wrote: post #26
oh_sigh wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd imagine intelligence would be about crimes yet to take place, ie people planning a terrorist attack (is that a crime in itself?)

Generally, for every crime x, the act of planning x is a crime known as "conspiracy to commit x"

Not for a crime planned by one person alone.

Re: Head of Danish intelligence suspended after whistleblowers hand over information

#108

Post by blaser-waffle »

oh_sigh wrote: post #20
gostsamo wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope, it is not their job. If a citizen is accused in a crime, there are other institutions tasked with the investigation. Sometimes this is the counterintelligence, sometimes this is the police. However, breaking the law and actively avoiding legal supervision is a crime which makes them criminals.

I'd imagine intelligence would be about crimes yet to take place, ie people planning a terrorist attack (is that a crime in itself?)

This would generally be the function of a counter-intelligence or internal (criminal) investigation group.

In the US that would be handled by the FBI -- they're legally the only ones that can spy on citizens in in the US. They work hand-in-glove with other agencies, but they own domestic.

A non-US example would be Russia, where the FSB (which Putin used to be the head of) handles internal investigations and counterintelligence like the FBI, while the SVR handles foreign intelligence. Or MI5 vs MI6 in the UK, etc.

Re: Head of Danish intelligence suspended after whistleblowers hand over information

#109

Post by throw_this_one »

jessaustin wrote: post #53
throw_this_one wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hah, what is funny is that you think military spending amounts means much at all. First of all, there’s asymmetrical warfare. Russia’s investment in cyber, hypersonic, etc. China’s investment in medium range missiles to create access denial for the US in the pacific. Plus factor in that the US budget is bloated because of these corrupt fat cat defense industry companies, huge waste, etc...

...Russia...China... Wow their military must be much smarter than ours. Or perhaps they are held responsible for their performance? ...US budget is bloated because of these corrupt fat cat defense industry companies, huge waste, etc... So... does all of this argue for more or less civilian oversight?

Lol who holds them responsible? Not civilians, I can assure you.

They’re just more nimble because they’re top-down leadership. Not as good at expressing the people’s will, but more nimble at implementing autocratic decisions.

Re: Head of Danish intelligence suspended after whistleblowers hand over information

#110

Post by throw_this_one »

DarthGhandi wrote: post #93
legerdemain wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our armed forces are safeguarding Americans from a worldwide foe that could show up anywhere on the globe. To beat the world, we have to outspend the rest of the world combined on defense. Perhaps the greatest danger to American defense is insider threats. If the looming danger from insider threats is stark enough, we will absolutely need to find a way to outspend ourselves on defense.

From virtually everyone else's perspective the US is the worldwide foe. Your foreign policy has had horrendous effects on the world for the last 50+ years.

Lol what a trite and uncritical comment.

Yes I’m sure we are the foes of Europe (30 countries), of South Korea, Japan, Philippines, Australia, NZ.

Of Brazil, Mexico, the Carib, Colombia.

Georgia.

The list goes on and on. Countries in our sphere are doing very well. They have democratic governments.

Yes there are some stupid foreign policies I abhor as much as you. So if something is wrong a few times, it’s completely evil? Laughable. Apply that logic to the rest of the world and see what you get.

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