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Hyperloop: Pipes of Fancy

economist.com

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Re: Hyperloop: Pipes of Fancy

#101

Post by rsynnott »

TigeriusKirk wrote: post #67
ashtonkem wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems worse than a subway in pretty much every metric, unless if you happen to be same person who's selling the cars that it's compatible with.

There are a number of metrics where it's clearly better. Scheduling and routing. Not waiting 10-30 minutes for the next train depending on time of day. Not stopping anywhere but your destination. No connections or changeovers. Personal space. Privacy, safety. Regardless of how you personally feel about this factor, it matters enough to some people to significantly impact usage. Those factors may or may not be enough…

> Scheduling and routing. Not waiting 10-30 minutes for the next train depending on time of day.

Subway systems are normally run at higher frequency than that. Those are more suburban commuter rail frequencies.

> Not stopping anywhere but your destination.

What if someone else stops in the tunnel in front of you.

> No connections or changeovers.

Only one tunnel depth?

Re: Hyperloop: Pipes of Fancy

#102

Post by rsynnott »

ashtonkem wrote: post #69
TigeriusKirk wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a number of metrics where it's clearly better. Scheduling and routing. Not waiting 10-30 minutes for the next train depending on time of day. Not stopping anywhere but your destination. No connections or changeovers. Personal space. Privacy, safety. Regardless of how you personally feel about this factor, it matters enough to some people to significantly impact usage. Those factors may or may not be enough…

It’ll also transit a tiny fraction of what a traditional subway would, and requires ownership of a car to use (assuming that a Tesla isn’t a requirement or at least preferred). I’m thoroughly convinced that these types of systems, along with self driving cars, are purely fantasies to allow people to believe that we can fix all the problems of car culture without having to give something up. If you want to move a lot…

Or, given the capacity limitations of the boring company thing, just build a segregated bus lane. The main advantage of subways over trams and fully segregated bus lanes is capacity, so if you’re not doing that...

Re: Hyperloop: Pipes of Fancy

#103

Post by Miraste »

jjoonathan wrote: post #33
MengerSponge wrote: post #26

Did you know that LIGO designers had to add earthen berms to protect their vacuum pipes from bullets? Not to mention the throughput issues, the energy budget, the cost of construction, the right-of-way issues... Let's be frank: Hyperloop is dumb, and people who are spending money on it are too. You have better things to do with your time than analyzing it or defending it, and so do I.

> Did you know that LIGO designers had to add earthen berms to protect their vacuum pipes from bullets? No, that's hilarious, where can I read more?

This article[0] talks about how locals were shooting at it, although it doesn't mention the berms (talking to the sheriff must not have worked out). I think a hyperloop could avoid this problem by not locating in Louisiana.

[0] https://www.225batonrouge.com/article/good-vibrations

Re: Hyperloop: Pipes of Fancy

#104

Post by sudosysgen »

grecy wrote: post #18
AlexandrB wrote: post #9

This is evergreen when talking about Hyperloop: http://www.cat-bus.com/2017/12/gadgetbahn/ The problems with building this have nothing to do with technology but with right-of-way, investment, and politics. If those factors were solved, we'd already have high-speed rail in places where Hyperloop has been proposed. The fact that we don't says that Hyperloop is unlikely to be feasible as well.

Which is why the first Hyperloop will probably be built outside the USA. Melbourne to Sydney always seemed like a good choice to me. It's one of the busiest air routes in the world[1], there is obviously tons of solar, lots of open land beside the existing road, no seismic activity to speak of and it's a good long distance to get up to speed (~1000km). [1] (actually #3 in the world by number of passengers) https://en…

The first Hyperloop will probably never be built. It's an absurd technology, for a great many reasons.

Re: Hyperloop: Pipes of Fancy

#105

Post by rsynnott »

Animats wrote: post #13

The Dubai hyperloop project is supposedly proceeding. The 10km test track was supposed to open this year. Can't find any info later than January 2020. The Dubai to Abu Dhabi link is the ideal case. The route is mostly flat, open desert. Funding is available. There is government support. There's considerable traffic between those points. If that doesn't work, not much else will.

And, crucially, no-one cares about the economics. Dubai has never paid too much attention to that with mega projects.

Re: Hyperloop: Pipes of Fancy

#106

Post by sudosysgen »

TigeriusKirk wrote: post #67
ashtonkem wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems worse than a subway in pretty much every metric, unless if you happen to be same person who's selling the cars that it's compatible with.

There are a number of metrics where it's clearly better. Scheduling and routing. Not waiting 10-30 minutes for the next train depending on time of day. Not stopping anywhere but your destination. No connections or changeovers. Personal space. Privacy, safety. Regardless of how you personally feel about this factor, it matters enough to some people to significantly impact usage. Those factors may or may not be enough…

Our subway system in Montreal runs at a frequency of anywhere from 2 minutes to 7 minutes. There are even faster ones.

Re: Hyperloop: Pipes of Fancy

#107

Post by liability »

GuB-42 wrote: post #45

Can someone explain me how Hyperloop is supposed to work? There are so many things wrong with it. - Hyperloop is a vactrain, a century old idea, and to this day, despite numerous attempts, nothing came close to a working prototype, let alone something production-ready. - By contrast, high-speed trains carries millions of passengers every day in many parts of the world. They are safe, comfortable, and commercially via…

> "Can someone explain me how Hyperloop is supposed to work?"

1) Mass transit competes with cars.

2) Elon Musk sells cars.

3) High speed rail projects get derailed by people saying "but if we wait N years we could build a hyperloop instead"

That's how Elon Musk intends Hyperloop to work.

Re: Hyperloop: Pipes of Fancy

#109

Post by sudosysgen »

Miraste wrote: post #103
jjoonathan wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Did you know that LIGO designers had to add earthen berms to protect their vacuum pipes from bullets? No, that's hilarious, where can I read more?

This article[0] talks about how locals were shooting at it, although it doesn't mention the berms (talking to the sheriff must not have worked out). I think a hyperloop could avoid this problem by not locating in Louisiana. [0] https://www.225batonrouge.com/article/good-vibrations

What do you do when a terrorist shoots a hyperloop tube causing a pressure wave that will kill everyone inside?

Re: Hyperloop: Pipes of Fancy

#110

Post by sudosysgen »

captainbland wrote: post #85
riffic wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

common misconception. Hyperloop tubes were never meant to be fully evacuated, they operate at pressure differentials with air bearings (imagine a cylindrical air hockey table).

It may not be totally evacuated but the pressure difference between it and the outside world is still supposed to be very large isn't it? And if you want a hyperloop that actually goes anywhere that's going to represent quite a large volume of low pressure space that you need to create and maintain. Surely this has to be quite energy intensive and generally difficult to maintain, especially since you have to get peop…

Another thing, is that anyone that punches a hole big enough in the tube basically transforms half of the hyperloop into a bomb. Energy = pressure * volume. That's a lot of energy smashing through a hyperloop capsule. Basically, imagine if 3% of the tube was filled with pipe bombs, but in reverse.
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