Live data from Hacker News

Norway advises citizens to avoid all travel abroad

theguardian.com

101–110 of 116 posts

Re: Norway advises citizens to avoid all travel abroad

#101
post #91
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow. Just wow. You claim French people aren't taking covid measures seriously, yet you are behaving as a potential human carrier of the virus by travelling abroad. And you have the nerve to complain about people coughing on the plane...

Please keep the online shaming/callout culture off HN. I know it feels justified in individual cases, but it adds up to a tragedy of the commons effect in the end. A massive one. https://hn.algolia.com/?query=online%20shaming%20by%3Adang&s... https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

My bad, late night!

Re: Norway advises citizens to avoid all travel abroad

#102
post #91
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow. Just wow. You claim French people aren't taking covid measures seriously, yet you are behaving as a potential human carrier of the virus by travelling abroad. And you have the nerve to complain about people coughing on the plane...

Please keep the online shaming/callout culture off HN. I know it feels justified in individual cases, but it adds up to a tragedy of the commons effect in the end. A massive one. https://hn.algolia.com/?query=online%20shaming%20by%3Adang&s... https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Dang the hypocrite

Re: Norway advises citizens to avoid all travel abroad

#103
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow. Just wow. You claim French people aren't taking covid measures seriously, yet you are behaving as a potential human carrier of the virus by travelling abroad. And you have the nerve to complain about people coughing on the plane...

The rules are simple to follow. Traveling was allowed.

You're complaining about people doing dumb stuff while you are inside a sealed tube that recirculates the air from those coughing people around you.

Re: Norway advises citizens to avoid all travel abroad

#104

This is one of the aspects I like about the covid. The centre of my city without the herds of foreign tourists and infrastructure load, the folding of the pretentious restaurants servicing them, the empty airports. My people exploring and having a holidays in their own country instead of visiting "greatest hits" in others. Everything is a lot calmer, there is space everywhere. The airbnb once more are converted to lo…

I concur. Tourism tends to benefit wealth holders more than wealth creators - providing easy returns to property owners but only minimum wage jobs to workers. Excessive tourism is arguably a resource curse, and I hope Southern European economies in particular take this opportunity to rebalance.

Re: Norway advises citizens to avoid all travel abroad

#105
post #79
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Calculating “death rate” with a denominator of “recovered people” is simply lying with data: of all of the covid metrics, “recovered people” is the least well reported. Of the millions and millions of people who have now had this virus and recovered without incident, only a small fraction have seen the inside of a medical facility. Only a tiny fraction of those have had “recovery” reported, and even when it is report…

> The overall IFR for this virus is somewhere around 0.1-0.6% Do you have a good citation for this, because the Biostatics research university at Cambridge have IFR 10 times that. https://www.mrc-bsu.cam.ac.uk/now-casting/

That’s just ridiculously, inexcusably wrong. The best estimates have been under 0.7% since March. The CDC current estimate is 0.65%:

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/planning-scena...

Re: Norway advises citizens to avoid all travel abroad

#106
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please keep the online shaming/callout culture off HN. I know it feels justified in individual cases, but it adds up to a tragedy of the commons effect in the end. A massive one. https://hn.algolia.com/?query=online%20shaming%20by%3Adang&s... https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Dang the hypocrite

What have I done now?

Re: Norway advises citizens to avoid all travel abroad

#107
post #60
post #33

Unfortunately, it's only advisory. The government should set up a 5000 NOK (at least) "traveling fine" per person, and obligatory quarantine ("home" confinement in state-provided guarded quarters) upon entry. THAT would discourage people from traveling. So those who MUST travel can plan ahead and know what they're up to, the rest will give up. AFAIK, insurance companies announced that they'll refuse travel-insurance…

> Unfortunately, it's only advisory. True, but in additition to this advice, there is the Department of Foreign Affairs official travel advisory (the kind that every country issues, like "due to a civil war, we advice against all non-essential travel to country X") [1]. That advice is currently to avoid all non-essential travel to all countries, except the whitelist that is updated every two weeks. As of right now, t…

> For all the non-exempt countries, i.e. for most of the world, there is obligatory quarantine on your own dime. Unless your job allows you to work from home, that's a substantially larger financial penalty than the fine you suggest.

Aaand.. quarantine based on trust in people is eventually going to be ineffective. "Traveling fine" was a minor point, the major point was forced, guarded quarantine upon entry.

I mean, you can go out of a plane, go to a party next day instead of placing yourself in quarantine, infect several people, and.. nothing is going to happen to you. You could and should be prosecuted by "smittevernsparagrafen" but that most likely won't happen even if you somehow DO get identified as the source of the infection.

> Oh come on, this isn't China.

The way people have been partying lately around the country only proves that people can't even uphold simple rules and that a strategy based on trusting that people aren't going to behave stupidly is eventually going to fail.

> Then you are probably also aware that the idea is that the whitelisted countries have a low enough case rate that the authorities believe that closing the border to those countries has little effect.

The large infection cluster that has been brought to Norway this winter came from an Italian ski-resort that has been in a region that would be considered "green" today. The authorities' beliefs contradict concrete evidence.

> This may or may not be correct, but you seem to try to view the situation as negatively as you can.

Well... I look at people's behavior and there need to be real, tangible consequences for "unwanted" / irresponsible behavior.

Re: Norway advises citizens to avoid all travel abroad

#108
post #89
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't disagree with you that human contact is important for a great deal many of people. However, cynically speaking, death and debilitating, potentially long-lasting illness from Covid also can't be hand-waved away. It's an issue of balancing the needs of the many against the needs of the few, and unfortuantely in this instance the actions of individuals can cause incredibly amplified levels of suffering for a gre…

> it is absolutely, demonstrably true that individuals can cause a 'chain of deaths' "Can" is not the same as "will". I already said "when done with with appropriate precautions and care" in my previous comment. The thing is, just because there are some Oz bogans returning from their coma drinking holiday in Bali acted in an idiotic fashion doesn't mean we should prevent everyone else on the planet from travelling at…

> "Can" is not the same as "will".

Well, you don't know. Therefore you must act as if "can" = "will". Otherwise, you're playing Russian roulette.

> draconic hard lockdown

Travelling ban is not a draconic hard lockdown; in fact it'd allow the country to function mostly as normal. Draconic lockdown would be shutting down all non-essential services (what Norway did in March) and even more drastic measures that other countries used (curfew, home confinement, you're allowed to go out only with a concrete purpose and not "too far away" from your apartment... like it was in France for a while.).

Re: Norway advises citizens to avoid all travel abroad

#109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The rules are simple to follow. Traveling was allowed.

You're complaining about people doing dumb stuff while you are inside a sealed tube that recirculates the air from those coughing people around you.

The plane has airfilters and everyone wears a mask. You are also supposed to be careful and wash your hands.

Re: Norway advises citizens to avoid all travel abroad

#110
post #105
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The overall IFR for this virus is somewhere around 0.1-0.6% Do you have a good citation for this, because the Biostatics research university at Cambridge have IFR 10 times that. https://www.mrc-bsu.cam.ac.uk/now-casting/

That’s just ridiculously, inexcusably wrong. The best estimates have been under 0.7% since March. The CDC current estimate is 0.65%: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/planning-scena...

So the CDC say 0.7% as the best estimate, above even your highest 0.6% statement.

Until recently Cambridge had 0.9%, this has increased recently as more evidence has come out. Taking a 0.7% value would mean that 40% of Brooklyn has had it, a figure not backed by serological tests. Even is 100% of Brooklyn had has covid, that would give and IFR of nearly 0.3%

Post reply on HN