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ZSA Moonlander: A next-generation ergonomic keyboard

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Re: ZSA Moonlander: A next-generation ergonomic keyboard

#101

Post by banachtarski »

cfontes wrote: post #95
striking wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A keyboard is a tool, and for people who type on theirs 40+ hours a week, a couple hundred here or there is a rounding error at the end of the year. I bought a ZSA keyboard (not this one) due to otherwise having to type on a crappy butterfly keyboard on a laptop provided by work (when my E key started repeating, I knew I was over it). I could've bought some sort of crappy rubber dome thing, but I didn't. And I'm very…

I am among those people, 2 programming jobs, 12 hours a day typing non stop, for 15 years so far. I am probably super lucky but have never had an issue on my wrists and have used every single shitty keyboard you can think of. I love an ergonomic keyboard, but it costs 50 dollars maybe? This is not that, this is something else.

What's the point of judging how people spend money on the internet? Are you saying you are above reproach in your spending in every facet of life? You don't buy anything because you just enjoy it, or because it strikes your personal fancy? If so, good for you, but don't say things like "I don't mean any offense" and follow that up immediately with "I find it insane that..." The second statement is clearly intended to convey some sort of offense.

My two cents (as someone that doesn't have a fancy keyboard).

Re: ZSA Moonlander: A next-generation ergonomic keyboard

#102

Post by victoriasun »

tetris11 wrote: post #46
me_me_me wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Shoveling in expensive ergonomic equipment is little different from shoes or bags or guns or radios or funko pops. It is and it isn't. It depends if/when you stop. I just got $250 keyboard. My last one was also in that range. Though it lasted me around 10 years. I don't think its evil wanting to have nice things. Its problem when 'you life to buy things, not buy things to live.'

I have never spent more than 30 € on a keyboard and mouse combo, and that's over the span of the last 10 years... I have never peeked over the price wall into the higher end stuff because it genuinely has never occurred to me that my current keyboard+mouse were hindering my productivity. High contrast screen? Sure, squinting hurts. Office-cancelling headphones? Sure, loud noises ruin my concentration But keyboard and…

When I couldn’t sleep at night because of how much pain my wrists were in :(

I wish I cared more earlier. The injury in my left thumb may never go away fully, and it’s taken me a really long time to come to peace with that.

Re: ZSA Moonlander: A next-generation ergonomic keyboard

#103

Post by rbanffy »

nextos wrote: post #92
tom_ wrote: post #76

I wish people would just copy the MS Natural Ergonomic 4000, but with better keyswitches. As things stand, every split keyboard with nice keyswitches has a different layout from every other, which is odd, considering how much this type of device relies on muscle memory to work. (Also, most of them miss one or more of F keys, symmetrical meta keys, standard navigation cluster layout, volume buttons - it's like they wa…

I love mechanical keyboards. My favorite switch is ALPS. But IMHO, the most ergonomic switches are low-travel ones. They increase my typing speed, reduce latency and make long sessions effortless. Luckily, low-travel versions of many good quality keyboard switches are being produced and developed more often now to cater the gaming market. For a simple, readily available option, I find the Apple Magic Keyboard more th…

> I find the Apple Magic Keyboard more than good enough

I liked the previous gen better. It has slightly longer travel than the new one, very similar to the pre-butterfly Macbooks.

Having said that, I prefer the feel of the butterflies over the magic ones. Even though the travel is very short, it's very tactile.

I had a great surprise with the - haha - Raspberry Pi keyboard. It has a firm touch, good travel and small footprint. It feels much nicer than any keyboard in its price range has the right to feel.

I'd love to try the Kinesis, but I'm not sure I like its footprint. I already have a Unicomp 122-key Battlecruiser on my Linux box and it's quite enough .

Re: ZSA Moonlander: A next-generation ergonomic keyboard

#104

Post by jchook »

ahelwer wrote: post #65
jchook wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which cheap split keyboard do you use?

Currently I use the Microsoft Natural Ergonomic Keyboard 4000, an enormous dinosaur which can reliably be bought for $20 used. I had the Microsoft Sculpt keyboard for a few years before that, which I liked, but the build quality was very bad and I had two break on me. I'm going to switch to either a goldtouch or kinesis freestyle soon, since I don't like the number pad. Those are $80-$120 but I hope the build quality…

Thanks! I'll check those out.

I have the Kenesis Freestyle2 and I find it unusable without retraining much of my muscle memory.

1. The extra 2 columns of keys on the left edge somehow reliably disorients me.

2. the lack of an extra (potentially redundant) row of keys on the inner edges throws me off b/c I tend to reach across the middle from either side, e.g. press B with my right hand.

Re: ZSA Moonlander: A next-generation ergonomic keyboard

#105

Post by striking »

cfontes wrote: post #95
striking wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A keyboard is a tool, and for people who type on theirs 40+ hours a week, a couple hundred here or there is a rounding error at the end of the year. I bought a ZSA keyboard (not this one) due to otherwise having to type on a crappy butterfly keyboard on a laptop provided by work (when my E key started repeating, I knew I was over it). I could've bought some sort of crappy rubber dome thing, but I didn't. And I'm very…

I am among those people, 2 programming jobs, 12 hours a day typing non stop, for 15 years so far. I am probably super lucky but have never had an issue on my wrists and have used every single shitty keyboard you can think of. I love an ergonomic keyboard, but it costs 50 dollars maybe? This is not that, this is something else.

It's also mechanical, it's got open source and reflashable firmware, it's hand-assembled by well-paid workers in Taiwan, it's covered with a 2-year warranty. (The landing page has a bunch of other "nice features" listed.)

I'm not sure what kinds of keyboards you've used, but there are good reasons to buy ones like these.

This specific one might be a little on the "premium" cost side, sure, but I think it's entirely reasonable that it is and that people would still buy it. The list of good things about it is long enough that I'd consider it if I were still in the market for a keyboard.

Re: ZSA Moonlander: A next-generation ergonomic keyboard

#106

Post by tck42 »

nextos wrote: post #92
tom_ wrote: post #76

I wish people would just copy the MS Natural Ergonomic 4000, but with better keyswitches. As things stand, every split keyboard with nice keyswitches has a different layout from every other, which is odd, considering how much this type of device relies on muscle memory to work. (Also, most of them miss one or more of F keys, symmetrical meta keys, standard navigation cluster layout, volume buttons - it's like they wa…

I love mechanical keyboards. My favorite switch is ALPS. But IMHO, the most ergonomic switches are low-travel ones. They increase my typing speed, reduce latency and make long sessions effortless. Luckily, low-travel versions of many good quality keyboard switches are being produced and developed more often now to cater the gaming market. For a simple, readily available option, I find the Apple Magic Keyboard more th…

I've found Kailh Blue low profile to be the sweet spot for mechanical but low travel. My absolute favorite keyboard is the HAVIT HV-KB395L [1], unfortunately the switches seem to not be very durable (or I'm just very rough on my keyboards). I have two broken ones around (left control key is flaky), considering if I want to buy another one.

This is literally the only keyboard I have found that uses those switches.

[1] https://www.prohavit.com/products/hv-kb395l-low-profile-mech...

Re: ZSA Moonlander: A next-generation ergonomic keyboard

#107

Post by nandkeypull »

Symbiote wrote: post #97
nandkeypull wrote: post #82

For similar ergonomic keyboards (mostly DIY), there's of course a GitHub awesome list: https://github.com/pvinis/awesome-split-keyboards . My personal favorite is the Lily58: https://old.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/d9g3qe... . It avoids having a preposterous number of thumb keys and has a number row. And the OLEDs are a nice touch.

I recently forked the "awesome" list as it seemed a bit abandoned, but I haven't added anything to it just yet. https://aposymbiont.github.io/awesome-split-keyboards/ (If anyone actually enjoys writing JavaScript, or can do it in their sleep, feel free to take over. I'm 95% a backend dev, so I was just aiming for something easy to maintain, ideally generated from something like a CSV file. The intention is to link to…

Nice visualization! I like how you added filters for all the different options. The repo I linked to is a fork of the original abandoned one; it seems to be being updated regularly (last merge 8 days ago).

Re: ZSA Moonlander: A next-generation ergonomic keyboard

#108

Post by arka2147483647 »

The thing i like best about ZSA, is that they are selling products. Just buy, configure with a nice web tool. No soldering, assembly or programming required to make it work.

All other Ergodox, or Ergodox alternatives, seem like much more work to get working the way you want.

Anyway, the thumb clusters were my primary annoyance with my Ergodox, so i ordered a Moonlander. I hope it works out.

Re: ZSA Moonlander: A next-generation ergonomic keyboard

#109

Post by DougWebb »

billman wrote: post #90
ahelwer wrote: post #17

I've been getting deep into the home office ergonomics hole now that I'll be working from home indefinitely. There's a real danger here - I generally pride myself as someone who is conscientious of consumerist tendencies, but it's become clear that my drive for better ergonomics is no longer about the actual facilitation of work or avoidance of injury. I have spent more time researching ergonomic setups than could ev…

The best keyboard I can think of is one that tells me to get my butt out of the chair and go for a walk every two hours.

Hook up a cattleprod on a timer?

Or, maybe better, glue on a stopwatch.

Re: ZSA Moonlander: A next-generation ergonomic keyboard

#110

Post by [deleted] »

striking wrote: post #105
cfontes wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am among those people, 2 programming jobs, 12 hours a day typing non stop, for 15 years so far. I am probably super lucky but have never had an issue on my wrists and have used every single shitty keyboard you can think of. I love an ergonomic keyboard, but it costs 50 dollars maybe? This is not that, this is something else.

It's also mechanical, it's got open source and reflashable firmware, it's hand-assembled by well-paid workers in Taiwan, it's covered with a 2-year warranty. (The landing page has a bunch of other "nice features" listed.) I'm not sure what kinds of keyboards you've used, but there are good reasons to buy ones like these. This specific one might be a little on the "premium" cost side, sure, but I think it's entirely r…

[deleted]
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