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Can an extreme low carb diet be used as medicine?

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Re: Can an extreme low carb diet be used as medicine?

#101

Post by nsl73 »

YinglingLight wrote: post #38
jahnu wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are also for the hard to market, varied diet but largely fruit and vegetables, moderate exercise, little or no alcohol, and regular checkups. I'm failing to some degree on these, I admit.

They are also for 7-8 bite sized 250 calorie meals every other waking hour. A feat that can only be feasibly achieved via living off ready-made readily-purchasable health snacks™. There is no money in fasting, intermittent or otherwise.

> They are also for 7-8 bite sized 250 calorie meals every other waking hour.

No, I wouldn’t say this is modern consistent dietary advice. So many people that make it there business to talk about diet are hyping intermittent fasting now.

Re: Can an extreme low carb diet be used as medicine?

#102

Post by SketchySeaBeast »

YinglingLight wrote: post #38
jahnu wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are also for the hard to market, varied diet but largely fruit and vegetables, moderate exercise, little or no alcohol, and regular checkups. I'm failing to some degree on these, I admit.

They are also for 7-8 bite sized 250 calorie meals every other waking hour. A feat that can only be feasibly achieved via living off ready-made readily-purchasable health snacks™. There is no money in fasting, intermittent or otherwise.

> There is no money in fasting, intermittent or otherwise.

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=fasting+books&ref=nb_sb_noss_2

Seems like there's money in them there books.

Re: Can an extreme low carb diet be used as medicine?

#103

Post by shlant »

billysielu wrote: post #37

I did it before for weight loss, it worked amazingly, but the weight came back on just as easily. It would have to be a permanent lifestyle change, and I'm not convinced that's safe.

IMO any extremely restrictive diet is not sustainable and therefor not a real, long-term solution for health

Re: Can an extreme low carb diet be used as medicine?

#104

Post by treis »

PudgePacket wrote: post #82
abtom wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Weight loss comes from having a calorie deficit, not from keto. You can gain weight on keto if you eat more calories. You can achieve the same weight loss by just eating fewer total calories, without cutting carbs as well.

Yes yes calorie in calorie out blah blah. Most people can't maintain a caloric deficit for an extended duration. Countless studies have shown that. The point is people who are overweight tend to lose weight when eating ad libitum on a ketogenic diet, whereas people on a standard diet generally gain weight (see western populations).

If you cut out cookies, cake, pretzels, chips, and virtually all other junk food of course you will lose weight. IMHO, the keto folks are missing the actual cause here. You're not losing weight because you eat your burger without a bun. It's because you don't eat a pile of fries.

Re: Can an extreme low carb diet be used as medicine?

#105

Post by randomchars »

YinglingLight wrote: post #38
jahnu wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are also for the hard to market, varied diet but largely fruit and vegetables, moderate exercise, little or no alcohol, and regular checkups. I'm failing to some degree on these, I admit.

They are also for 7-8 bite sized 250 calorie meals every other waking hour. A feat that can only be feasibly achieved via living off ready-made readily-purchasable health snacks™. There is no money in fasting, intermittent or otherwise.

> There is no money in fasting, intermittent or otherwise.

It seems like there is: https://techcrunch.com/2020/05/20/big-sky-health-raises-8-mi...

Re: Can an extreme low carb diet be used as medicine?

#106

Post by nsl73 »

mirsadm wrote: post #46
billysielu wrote: post #37

I did it before for weight loss, it worked amazingly, but the weight came back on just as easily. It would have to be a permanent lifestyle change, and I'm not convinced that's safe.

What makes you think that it isn't safe? I guess the other question is what makes you sure that another diet is safe?

It’s a really extreme diet. I would be concerned with the fat intake, the cholesterol intake, and limits on certain fruits and vegetables.

Re: Can an extreme low carb diet be used as medicine?

#107

Post by Engineering-MD »

randomchars wrote: post #72
shlant wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "It is the primary energy system" No, it's not [1]. Why do you think many organs[2] including the brain[3] that NEEDS glucose to run? > "we are in ketosis until we start to eat "food" high in carbs" No, that's not how that works. Infants are in a MILD ketosis and "this isn’t a function of their diet, but of the developmental period they’re in"[4] 1. https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article-abstract/59/3/682S/473... 2.…

[3] is very much not correct. Your brain can just fine on ketones. Your body is also capable of making it's own glucose, for the organs that need it: https://chem.libretexts.org/Bookshelves/Biological_Chemistry... .

From the review article “Glucose cannot be replaced as an energy source but it can be supplemented, as during strenuous physical activity when blood lactate levels are elevated [14] or during prolonged starvation [15] when blood levels of ketone bodies are elevated and BBB monocarboxylic acid transporter (MCT) levels are upregulated”

And tbh, I would be more inclined to believe the peer reviewed article on glucose metabolism in the brain by an established neuroscientist tbh.

Re: Can an extreme low carb diet be used as medicine?

#108

Post by shlant »

randomchars wrote: post #72
shlant wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "It is the primary energy system" No, it's not [1]. Why do you think many organs[2] including the brain[3] that NEEDS glucose to run? > "we are in ketosis until we start to eat "food" high in carbs" No, that's not how that works. Infants are in a MILD ketosis and "this isn’t a function of their diet, but of the developmental period they’re in"[4] 1. https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article-abstract/59/3/682S/473... 2.…

[3] is very much not correct. Your brain can just fine on ketones. Your body is also capable of making it's own glucose, for the organs that need it: https://chem.libretexts.org/Bookshelves/Biological_Chemistry... .

I have edited my comment to reflect that glucose is not the only energy source (although it is still REQUIRED)

Re: Can an extreme low carb diet be used as medicine?

#109

Post by StacyC »

biswaroop wrote: post #97
StacyC wrote: post #34

I am 58, on a (mostly) strict ketogenic diet since 2013. It has worked wonders for me and I expect to eat this way the rest of my life. I eat a lot of meat and eggs as I have found that combination (1) is something I enjoy very much, and (2) makes me feel the best. I didn’t have much weight to lose but I went from 175 to 160 (high school weight) and under 15% body fat. My energy level is consistently very good. Diet…

Do you avoid red meat? Also, do you worry about cholesterol intake from the meat and eggs?

I eat quite a lot of red meat, ribeye when I can, ground beef. Also pork, some fish. I prefer beef with a bit of fat.

I am convinced that dietary fat and cholesterol are not the problem as we have been told for decades.

My blood work is excellent. In fact, my doctor is on board with what I am doing but she also doesn’t quite know what to make of it. I think she still has some cognitive dissonance with someone eating the way I do and seeing the results that, per her training, should not be happening.

I also used to take 50mg of Losartan for blood pressure but I no longer need it.

Re: Can an extreme low carb diet be used as medicine?

#110

Post by codeulike »

sradman wrote: post #39

Before the advent of anti-seizure drugs, the ketogenic diet [1] was an effective and widespread intervention used to treat epilepsy. The downside is the discipline required to keep intake of carbohydrates below 15 grams per day, especially in children. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketogenic_diet

The NHS prescribe the ketogenic diet for some forms of epilepsy. That is, the UKs national health service prescribes keto as a treatment. And so the answer to the question posed by the OP "Can an extreme low carb diet be used as medicine?" is clearly Yes.

You get a diet plan, support, specialist foods and ingredients, ketone testing kits, etc, all on prescription.

There has been proper research into Keto as a treatment for some forms of epilepsy, and in some cases it performs as well as the best AEDs. See https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25524846/ and https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16146451/

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