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The Future of Online Identity Is Decentralized

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Re: The Future of Online Identity Is Decentralized

#101
post #95

Have worked in the identity space for a long time. Authentication isn't a hard problem, but identity is. It will be decentralized because if it is not fragmented, it is literally just oppression. Trusting authentication is not trusting identity, and the origin of identity is the Ur-problem because it comes down to questions of recourse, collateral, risk, authority, and legitimacy - which are all political economy que…

It will be decentralized because if it is not fragmented, it is literally just oppression. I've never understood that way of viewing things. For me identity is a right. The government must provide me with the means to prove who I am and my associated data like birth certificates, academic titles, health (vaccination), real estate and indirectly verifying identity for private contracts that use my national id card num…

"In an oppressive state identity surely could be oppression, just like everything else, but in a democratic country?"

What makes you think a democracy can't be oppressive?

Even in perfect democracies there is something called the tyranny of the majority, where the majority can oppress the minority.

If we're talking about the US in particular, we have to recognize first that it's not even a perfect democracy, and there are many anti-democratic things about it such as the electoral college, and plenty more things that hinder democracy even where it exists (such as poor civic education, money's outsize influence in elections, extremely biased media, branches of government which shirk their balancing and oversight roles, etc).

Then, to get specifically to the oppressive aspects of the US, they range from slavery and lack of women's rights from its foundation, to segregation that existed in law up to the middle of the 20th Century (and arguably still exists in fact to some extent and in some places in the US even now), to the imprisonment in concentration camps of Americans of Japanese descent, to discrimination against people who weren't heterosexual, to the War on Drugs and police brutality which primarily impact minorities, to abuse, killing, and imprisonment of people who come to the US from other countries.

All this oppression and more has happened in what is ostensibly a democracy, and often likes to style itself as the world's greatest democracy.

And all of this oppression has had to do with identity, which required identifying people's race, gender, sexual preferences, or country of origin.

Such identification is amplified and made all that much easier in the age of computers, the internet, and gigantic databases on everyone. It's a data trove just begging for abuse.

Re: The Future of Online Identity Is Decentralized

#102
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bad example. In Australia, everyone was using credit cards.. but they have PIN code + chip. If a centralized system is not inept, it can do all the same things decentralized things do and better.

PIN codes and chips are used in the US as well, but I doubt a PIN and better encryption would help you[1]. 1: https://xkcd.com/538/

Then with cash it is even easier as it doesn't leave any digital trace.

Re: The Future of Online Identity Is Decentralized

#103
post #8

If anything, my bet is the future of identity is more centralized. Decentralized solutions, as I've read about them in their current form, require a significant amount of technical knowledge to understand. That is, to understand both what they are and, more importantly, their benefits ("why does this specific solution matter to me?"). Past that, the user experience is extremely poor in comparison to clicking "log in…

As much as I'd like to see a decentralized solution, I agree with you. I just spent 30 minutes helping my mom (age 60) and brother (36) set up a microsoft family account so they can dictate and monitor my nephews computer usage because [nephews] are addicts.

I didn't even know Microsoft family was a thing, but setting it up and configuring it (from my perspective), was intuitive and simple. My mother and brother however struggled to follow along, an are stressed that they won't be able to manage it.

Most users (even my spouse who is in her late 20's) readily fall into this category. My point is that if configuration requires any troubleshooting it won't reach mass adoption unless it addresses a perceived necessity without an alternative approach.

Re: The Future of Online Identity Is Decentralized

#104

Have worked in the identity space for a long time. Authentication isn't a hard problem, but identity is. It will be decentralized because if it is not fragmented, it is literally just oppression. Trusting authentication is not trusting identity, and the origin of identity is the Ur-problem because it comes down to questions of recourse, collateral, risk, authority, and legitimacy - which are all political economy que…

>All the use cases for digital identity are about enforcement and liability, and there are almost none that anyone would volunteer for.

Everything from a LinkedIn or Facebook account to your personal artist homepage with your CV on it establishes identity. People obviously disclose identity voluntarily, because identity is the primary means by which strangers establish trust.

If your identity is not transparent to me, I won't enter a relationship with you that requries me to know who you are, which in practice is almost every one. I don't see how non-fragmented identity is oppression. It can be for sure, but the primary reason why identity is important in our interactions is because it establishes trust and reputation. I've always considered "non-imposed" identity a sort of oxymoron for that reason, because if full control of identity is left to the individual, identity essentially loses its primary purpose.

Re: The Future of Online Identity Is Decentralized

#105
post #95

Have worked in the identity space for a long time. Authentication isn't a hard problem, but identity is. It will be decentralized because if it is not fragmented, it is literally just oppression. Trusting authentication is not trusting identity, and the origin of identity is the Ur-problem because it comes down to questions of recourse, collateral, risk, authority, and legitimacy - which are all political economy que…

It will be decentralized because if it is not fragmented, it is literally just oppression. I've never understood that way of viewing things. For me identity is a right. The government must provide me with the means to prove who I am and my associated data like birth certificates, academic titles, health (vaccination), real estate and indirectly verifying identity for private contracts that use my national id card num…

The problem is not that the data is centralized; the problem is that centralization engenders a position of advantage, which incentivizes perversion. This is why the problem becomes political. The amount of privacy one should have is relative to the ethics of humanity, society, to material necessity and fact, etc. This is an unsolved problem. One would need a series of blind oracles to solve it, unfettered by the influence of living things.

Re: The Future of Online Identity Is Decentralized

#106
post #8

If anything, my bet is the future of identity is more centralized. Decentralized solutions, as I've read about them in their current form, require a significant amount of technical knowledge to understand. That is, to understand both what they are and, more importantly, their benefits ("why does this specific solution matter to me?"). Past that, the user experience is extremely poor in comparison to clicking "log in…

I dunno, I think the UX for decentralized identity could be made pretty good. The GNUnet project has one that runs locally but exposes itself with an OIDC interface: https://reclaim.gnunet.org/

It's still pretty early, but imagine a more polished version of that with a user-friendly installer. If you had the software installed and running, it'd behave pretty similarly to e.g. Google's OIDC provider. Linux distros could even preinstall it. (I have no hope that MS/Apple/Google would do the same since they all have their own centralized providers.)

Re: The Future of Online Identity Is Decentralized

#107
post #95

Have worked in the identity space for a long time. Authentication isn't a hard problem, but identity is. It will be decentralized because if it is not fragmented, it is literally just oppression. Trusting authentication is not trusting identity, and the origin of identity is the Ur-problem because it comes down to questions of recourse, collateral, risk, authority, and legitimacy - which are all political economy que…

It will be decentralized because if it is not fragmented, it is literally just oppression. I've never understood that way of viewing things. For me identity is a right. The government must provide me with the means to prove who I am and my associated data like birth certificates, academic titles, health (vaccination), real estate and indirectly verifying identity for private contracts that use my national id card num…

The problem with making government-issued ID easy to verify online is that every website will start requiring it and pseudonymity or anonymity would become a thing of the past, even though it's necessary in some cases.

Re: The Future of Online Identity Is Decentralized

#108
post #8

If anything, my bet is the future of identity is more centralized. Decentralized solutions, as I've read about them in their current form, require a significant amount of technical knowledge to understand. That is, to understand both what they are and, more importantly, their benefits ("why does this specific solution matter to me?"). Past that, the user experience is extremely poor in comparison to clicking "log in…

In the US, everyone uses credit cards (centralized identity) to pay for stuff. In Mexico, credit cards are stolen and reamed for all they're worth by criminals. As a result, everyone uses cash (decentralized, anonymous, difficult to use). Everyone could move to decentralized in the face of significant pressure, even if centralized identity is more convenient.

[deleted]

Re: The Future of Online Identity Is Decentralized

#109

Urbit already done it.

Can someone point me to a resource that cuts through all of the jargon that Urbit uses and describe what it does that is new? I've browsed through their website and Hoon, the programming language, and can't find anything intriguing besides a bunch of new names and glyphs for existing terminology.

Is it just new age cabala of decentralized tech to generate hype and intrigue? I've seen a lot of projects fall into this techno-wizardry naming trap, and enjoyed it myself, but I'm starting to get tired of the overhead of such abstractions.

Re: The Future of Online Identity Is Decentralized

#110
The future of online identity is centralized.

China is already there. At age 16, you get your picture and fingerprints taken. If you get a phone, its ID is tied to your personal ID. Your WeChat account is tied to that ID. If you ride the subway or bus in a major city, or a train, your ID is recorded when you pay. A combination of phone tracking and facial recognition records where you go in some cities. It's even used to shame jaywalkers.[1]

The US is getting there with Real ID. It's been postponed a year due to the epidemic, but soon you will need a Real ID, checked against your birth registration, to board even a domestic flight.

[1] https://youtu.be/ectdRsyj-zI

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