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Microsoft and Google collaborate to make PWAs better

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Re: Microsoft and Google collaborate to make PWAs better

#101

Post by notatoad »

zelly wrote: post #92
notatoad wrote: post #67

I really wish that firefox and ubuntu would hop on board with this. It seems like they both should be at the forefront of this, but for some reason it's still impossible to make a PWA show up in my app list on ubuntu without installing chrome. Firefox on android does a great job of notifying and offering to install PWAs, but on desktop seems to pretend they don't exist. The bug report for adding any PWA support on de…

The "app list" in GNOME is a database of XDG desktop files which you can create manually if you want. Refer to the freedesktop.org docs.

Yeah, I get that. But hand-writing a .desktop file and dropping it in the appropriate folder is not what I would consider "supported"

Re: Microsoft and Google collaborate to make PWAs better

#102

Post by millstone »

lern_too_spel wrote: post #56
EvanWinget wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish that Apple had better support for PWAs and allowed alternative rendering engines. The issue is that they are the only major player in mobile that cares about user privacy, and this allows them to maintain their monopoly for many users. If the option is Android + first-class support for PWAs vs. Apple with limited support for PWAs, I’ll go for the latter every time.

The caring for privacy is only lip service. Consider that on iOS, you cannot get your location without also sending that location to Apple. You cannot install an app without telling Apple what you installed. You cannot install your own app on your device in a usable manner without giving banking details to Apple. You cannot subscribe to a service that has an associated app from that app without telling Apple that you…

This is a bad-faith distraction from the topic at hand. The privacy work that Apple has done on the web is real and significant. We know because ad pricing for Safari users has dropped 60%, while for Chrome users it's increased. That means tracking is working on Chrome and not Safari.

Re: Microsoft and Google collaborate to make PWAs better

#103

Post by zelly »

satvikpendem wrote: post #74

With PWAs, you have to write apps in HTML, CSS, and JS, which seems worse than natively compiled languages like Swift, Kotlin, Flutter, etc. This, I feel, is a fundamental problem. Perhaps the solution instead is that we need a way to distribute natively compilable apps via other means, maybe through a website but also through other app stores not subject to the Google / Apple duopoly; so basically PWA level access a…

There are lots of ways to do this, to have third-party "app stores" or different binary formats for apps (e.g. WASM, JVM/CLR bytecode).

All that would need to happen is Apple to allow sideloading apps. Then the only limit would be developer creativity.

Re: Microsoft and Google collaborate to make PWAs better

#105

Post by millstone »

skrowl wrote: post #85
k__ wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, would be cool. Firefox is currently unusable on mobile :/

I'm going to guess you're on iOS where you don't actually have Firefox (or any other actual browsers besides Safari). Firefox on iOS (like all iOS browsers) is required by App store rules to basically just skin Safari. On Android, Firefox is the MOST usable browser.

Then why doesn't anyone use it? Honest question - Mobile Firefox stands at less than half a percentage point marketshare.

Re: Microsoft and Google collaborate to make PWAs better

#106

Post by millstone »

partiallypro wrote: post #57

I have a feeling that Microsoft is going to launch an "Edgebook" competitor to Chromebook in the the future using Windows 10X. This obviously is good for the ecosystem all around, for tablets, phones, desktop, etc.

Isn't this Windows RT?

Re: Microsoft and Google collaborate to make PWAs better

#107

Post by rchaud »

zelly wrote: post #99
Abishek_Muthian wrote: post #27

Nice, I like the way Microsoft chose to ignore the bad blood with Google regarding its apps for Windows Phone and has embraced Android. PWA collaboration seems to be a step in the right direction, especially since Edge is using chromium and Microsoft seems to be building great PWA apps[1]. Although I'm not entirely sure about Google's end game with PWA[2], I hope these kind of collaboration motivates industries to bu…

PWAs would be very off brand for iOS. It would allow all kinds of spammy low-quality apps to masquerade as iOS apps without any vetting from Apple. Part of Apple's success is their extreme stubbornness. They decide something and make zero compromises. The consumer tech industry is forced to fall in line with whatever they want; they have final veto power over all new consumer tech basically.

You describe the iOS app store as some kind of zen garden of curated software, when it's full off the same kind of spammy apps that pollute other app stores. When the app inventory numbers in the million plus, it is impossible for every one to be reviewed for quality, or to be distinct from others already in the store.

The purpose of the App Store was to ensure that Apple got a cut of every dollar flowing through the store. Gatekeeping quality requires more than blocking developers from uploading fart apps.

Re: Microsoft and Google collaborate to make PWAs better

#108

Post by Spooky23 »

osrec wrote: post #66
alwillis wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In this regard, Apple reminds me of a cult leader brainwashing their followers into believing the cult's way is the best way. Makes me a little sick actually. Are you sure you aren’t the one being brainwashed? Why should anyone trust Google, since they make virtually all of their revenue from ad tech, which means tracking users across the web, even when they don't want to be. Advertisers are Google's customers, not t…

Oh man, not sure where to begin with responding to this. I'm not saying Google is incredible (my opinion is quite the contrary actually). However, I am saying Apple is holding the web back, in a fairly annoying way, for developers. The fact that they are a rich corporate does not mean they always will be, or that they're conducting their business in the best way possible. There are plenty of examples of rich tech bus…

Developer experience needs to be good enough. Beyond that it’s in the platform owners interest to keep them on a tight leash.

The android ecosystem demonstrates that freedom isn’t necessarily creating a materially better ecosystem.

Blackberry was a different problem — they saw themselves as a messaging platform that did some other stuff.

Re: Microsoft and Google collaborate to make PWAs better

#109

Post by julianlam »

zelly wrote: post #99
Abishek_Muthian wrote: post #27

Nice, I like the way Microsoft chose to ignore the bad blood with Google regarding its apps for Windows Phone and has embraced Android. PWA collaboration seems to be a step in the right direction, especially since Edge is using chromium and Microsoft seems to be building great PWA apps[1]. Although I'm not entirely sure about Google's end game with PWA[2], I hope these kind of collaboration motivates industries to bu…

PWAs would be very off brand for iOS. It would allow all kinds of spammy low-quality apps to masquerade as iOS apps without any vetting from Apple. Part of Apple's success is their extreme stubbornness. They decide something and make zero compromises. The consumer tech industry is forced to fall in line with whatever they want; they have final veto power over all new consumer tech basically.

The stubbornness of iOS is a large part of why PWAs haven't been broadly adopted.

At some point their hardline stance will backfire.

Re: Microsoft and Google collaborate to make PWAs better

#110

Post by waon »

vially wrote: post #63
alwillis wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In this regard, Apple reminds me of a cult leader brainwashing their followers into believing the cult's way is the best way. Makes me a little sick actually. Are you sure you aren’t the one being brainwashed? Why should anyone trust Google, since they make virtually all of their revenue from ad tech, which means tracking users across the web, even when they don't want to be. Advertisers are Google's customers, not t…

> [...] why they don't allow slower, less power efficient, less secure and less private web engines available on iOS Do you have a source that shows how chromium/edge/firefox/etc are inferior to safari in this regard?

Mozilla's arewefastyet.com used to show daily benchmark results for all major browser engines. Sadly, it ceased to include Safari after they scrapped the system in favor of a new one.

https://github.com/mozilla/arewefastyet

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