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Formula 1 2020: The secret aerodynamicist – are capes the key?

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Formula 1 2020: The secret aerodynamicist – are capes the key?

#101

Post by leecb »

pixxel wrote: post #97
beaker52 wrote: post #2

There are a couple of aspects of Formula 1 that make it very compelling to watch (my opinion of course, take as you will): - Accessible aerodynamics (it's on the road in front of you, not up in the air) - Technological developments (e.g. this year, one of the teams has a steering wheel they pull toward/push away themselves to change the geometry of the front wheels) - Watching high-performing athletes demonstrating t…

> Technological developments (e.g. this year, one of the teams has a steering wheel they pull toward/push away themselves to change the geometry of the front wheels) I’ve fallen out of love with F1 over recent years. Could you kindly expand on this tech? Does the push/pull change the toe or camber of front wheels, or something else?

My understanding is that it changes the toe of the front wheels, and is used to slightly increase speed on straight sections.

There are rules limiting what can control the steering / suspension components of a car, and that's one of the reasons why this is controlled by pushing/pulling on the steering wheel rather than something else.

Re: Formula 1 2020: The secret aerodynamicist – are capes the key?

#102

Post by iamspoilt »

pixxel wrote: post #97
beaker52 wrote: post #2

There are a couple of aspects of Formula 1 that make it very compelling to watch (my opinion of course, take as you will): - Accessible aerodynamics (it's on the road in front of you, not up in the air) - Technological developments (e.g. this year, one of the teams has a steering wheel they pull toward/push away themselves to change the geometry of the front wheels) - Watching high-performing athletes demonstrating t…

> Technological developments (e.g. this year, one of the teams has a steering wheel they pull toward/push away themselves to change the geometry of the front wheels) I’ve fallen out of love with F1 over recent years. Could you kindly expand on this tech? Does the push/pull change the toe or camber of front wheels, or something else?

It adjusts the toe of front wheels and it's called DAS (Dual Axis Steering). This is only currently being used by Mercedes in F1. In simplest of terms and from what I have understood, it can reduce friction and tyre wear on long stretches by having 0 toe (parallel front wheels). And achieve better grip on corners by moving the front wheel outwards.

This is a nice video explaining all this: https://youtu.be/TxKhi6Qsrog?t=67

Re: Formula 1 2020: The secret aerodynamicist – are capes the key?

#103

Post by jdhawk »

emerongi wrote: post #62
wiz21c wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dunno if it's a valid comparison, but my kid races indoor karting. He's average level, that means he's within 1.5% of the best in race conditions (i.e. on a 40 seconds lap, he's about than 0.7 seconds behind the best on average). And given the time it took to reach that, I'd say that being a competitive pilot may be just 10% of the victory, but those 10% are super tough to reach.

I've been doing a bit of karting lately and the difference between a 58s and a 59s lap is crazy. Super hard to shave that second off, but it's also so obvious that the guy doing 58s laps is way faster. Last year there was a hobbyist race on my local track and the person who won it was a guy who mainly practices at home on his computer. I imagine a gokart simulation is close enough to the real deal that training on it…

how much do you weigh compared to the top drivers.

Re: Formula 1 2020: The secret aerodynamicist – are capes the key?

#104

Post by olyjohn »

jdhawk wrote: post #103
emerongi wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been doing a bit of karting lately and the difference between a 58s and a 59s lap is crazy. Super hard to shave that second off, but it's also so obvious that the guy doing 58s laps is way faster. Last year there was a hobbyist race on my local track and the person who won it was a guy who mainly practices at home on his computer. I imagine a gokart simulation is close enough to the real deal that training on it…

how much do you weigh compared to the top drivers.

I don't think that matters as much as you might think. We have 3 race classes at our local track. The Pro guys (top level) are easily 1-2 seconds above the Pro-am guys (mid-level). Some of these pros are not exactly lightweights and are considerably above the minimum weight. Yet they manage to slaughter everybody else out there. You would think they had a disadvantage to the people who are running the baseline weight in the kart, but you sure can't tell it.

Re: Formula 1 2020: The secret aerodynamicist – are capes the key?

#105

Post by wastedhours »

newsclues wrote: post #93
pantalaimon wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a pretty rare event in comparison though.

F1 races are less common than other car races. The limited, exclusivity of the peak of sport is part of the appeal for fans and competitors alike.

Interesting though that compared with most individual series vs motorsport as a whole, F1 has more races (or at least, this season certainly would have done), and Liberty was rumoured to even be pushing for a 25 race calendar (nudging even closer to the BTCC calendar, and they do 3 per weekend...).

If the double-headers do well this year, I can see that being how they manage that many next year.

Re: Formula 1 2020: The secret aerodynamicist – are capes the key?

#106

Post by olyjohn »

11235813213455 wrote: post #51
beaker52 wrote: post #2

There are a couple of aspects of Formula 1 that make it very compelling to watch (my opinion of course, take as you will): - Accessible aerodynamics (it's on the road in front of you, not up in the air) - Technological developments (e.g. this year, one of the teams has a steering wheel they pull toward/push away themselves to change the geometry of the front wheels) - Watching high-performing athletes demonstrating t…

- The fact our planet has enough pollution to deal with already, I'm not saying Formula1 is extremely polluting, but whatever it adds is quite unnecessary for just an entertainment purpose (my opinion of course)

There's always Formula E...

Re: Formula 1 2020: The secret aerodynamicist – are capes the key?

#107

Post by arooaroo »

Ptrulli wrote: post #95

I see the formula one body always trying to change rules that effect car performance. The goal, more overtaking and competitive racing. My question is if they were to have more technology limitations meaning less area of improvement would that balance of 90% car 10% driver change for the better. Say 60% car and 40% driver. Wouldn't that make it more competitive?

The problem is that a lot of the investment comes from the large automotive manufacturers. Despite the fans and media interest in the drivers' championship, what really counts within the sport is the constructors' championship (the two are strongly correlated, of course).

What makes the sport more interesting to the fans is not necessarily what motivates teams to participate. One could argue that there are many other formula and racing formats that get that balance between the car and driver, but it's not necessarily something that gets people tuning in. People watch F1 because it's supposed to be pinnacle of automotive engineering and racing. So if I'm a team boss of one of the top 3 teams, I'm not going to be interested in artificially handicapping the sport so that the smaller teams can get in the mix.

However, they've seen repeatedly that fans get bored when it's the same couple of teams who are wrangling for the podium and there's not much excitement per race. So teams at the top will begrudgingly let the regulations be altered to try and spice things up, but nothing too significant. Unfortunately it'll take a downturn in F1 rights income & viewership to make the teams think twice about how to fight this tension between the competitiveness vs status quo. But then the big teams will think, why am I investing hundreds of millions in F1 when I'm not winning when I can spend a fraction in DTM or Le Mans and start building up prestige from other events.

Take the Monaco race, the quintessential F1 race. Watch the pole position lap from the driver's viewpoint and it's the up there with the most amazing 70secs you've seen in sport. However, watch the full race and it's typically a dull procession. As a fan I'd be glad to see the back of it, but sport itself love it.

Re: Formula 1 2020: The secret aerodynamicist – are capes the key?

#108

Post by jcfrei »

arooaroo wrote: post #29

People who are not normally interested in F1 are finding the Netflix series Drive to Survive a more accessible version to spectate. It's not just highlights in chronological order, but a distillation of the main themes of the season, e.g., certain inter-team battles, intra-team rivalries, fallouts between teams and suppliers, regulations, etc. The behind-the-scenes glimpses are fascinating. I remember (pre-family whe…

> These cars could in theory be even faster.

The constraint is not the budget or testing though. You could make much faster cars with even less money if you removed some of the constraints (particularly in minimal car weight, engine size, aerodynamic effects, fuel, etc.). You don't want them to be much faster for safety reasons - if they go much faster then there would be too many situations where the human reaction time is not sufficient to avoid an accident. The Group B (Rallying) competition suffered from too many accidents and was disbanded.

Re: Formula 1 2020: The secret aerodynamicist – are capes the key?

#109

Post by emerongi »

jdhawk wrote: post #103
emerongi wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been doing a bit of karting lately and the difference between a 58s and a 59s lap is crazy. Super hard to shave that second off, but it's also so obvious that the guy doing 58s laps is way faster. Last year there was a hobbyist race on my local track and the person who won it was a guy who mainly practices at home on his computer. I imagine a gokart simulation is close enough to the real deal that training on it…

how much do you weigh compared to the top drivers.

The very top drivers (1.5s faster than me) are probably around my weight, I'm ~70kg. There are heavier guys who are doing 1s faster laps than me.
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