Turkey determined to control social media platforms, Erdogan says • Hacker News Board

Re: Turkey determined to control social media platforms, Erdogan says

#101

Post by umvi » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 3:35 PM UTC

pjc50 wrote: post #90

umvi wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is why we can have an election outcome that no one in the media predicted. I'm surprised you chose this as the prime example. I think things surrounding George Floyd protests are more apt examples (tearing down arbitrary statues, cancel culture, CHOP/CHAZ, social media mobs, etc).

The statues are not arbitrary and many of them have been objected to for years. Similarly, US police have been routinely murdering people for years. What social media has done is allow the creation of a "headless" protest movement that can outrun attempts to take it down. In both cases, some people have leapt in and gone too far because they enjoy the chaos, but don't let that obscure the real issues. No, the problem…

> The statues are not arbitrary and many of them have been objected to for years.

Christopher Columbus and Francis Scott Key aren't arbitrary? It's not like they were removed by a democratic process. The majority had no say. A loud minority decided they needed to come down for arbitrary reasons and did it without permission. Anyone challenging them would be browbeaten by the loud minority mobs on social media and cancelled (employers pressured to fire them, etc.). Loud minorities have effectively been making entire corporations cower and kowtow on social media during recent weeks.

Re: Turkey determined to control social media platforms, Erdogan says

#102

Post by briefcomment » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 3:35 PM UTC

hyko wrote: post #25

briefcomment wrote: post #24

In a dictatorship, cracking down on social media is a no brainer. But I think social media undermines democracies as well. Social media vastly amplifies loud minorities. Democracy assumes that the majority of people are reasonable, so majority rule will also be reasonable. Loud minorities undermine majority rule. Loud minorities have always existed, but social media is now amplifying them to the point of obscuring wh…

But Turkey is not a democracy?

Edited for clarification.

Re: Turkey determined to control social media platforms, Erdogan says

#103

Post by bitcharmer » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 3:37 PM UTC

ed_balls wrote: post #57

haunter wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing. Just like how Poland and Hungary are EU members and they are walking their own way not giving a f about anything, rewriting the constitutions and laws as they wish

I don't think it's fare to compare Poland to Turkey. No one is jailing judges. It extremely hard to do a major judicial reform which is needed. The ruling party argument is that that the system of election the supreme court is flawed. There is a risk of deep state influence from the previous system and ties to Russia. When Germany was reunified they a purge of people with ties to DDR. Nothing like that happened in Po…

The ruling party has ex-communists in their ranks and somehow that's ok with them. The whole argument about cleansing the judicial ranks is bogus and a vulgar excuse for a power grab.

Re: Turkey determined to control social media platforms, Erdogan says

#104

Post by CigerSoganli » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 3:38 PM UTC

A little extra context missing from the Reuters article:

> "Do you see why we oppose social media like YouTube, Twitter, Netflix, and so on?" Erdogan said.

> "Turkey is not a banana republic. We will snub those who snub this country’s executive and judicial bodies," he stated.

> "We will chase those who attack a baby...," Erdogan said, referring to an insult directed at his daughter Esra Albayrak and his son-in-law, Treasury and Finance Minister Berat Albayrak upon their announcement of their newborn baby.

https://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/president-erdogan-vows-soc...

Re: Turkey determined to control social media platforms, Erdogan says

#105

Post by vmception » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 3:38 PM UTC

briefcomment wrote: post #24

In a dictatorship, cracking down on social media is a no brainer. But I think social media undermines democracies as well. Social media vastly amplifies loud minorities. Democracy assumes that the majority of people are reasonable, so majority rule will also be reasonable. Loud minorities undermine majority rule. Loud minorities have always existed, but social media is now amplifying them to the point of obscuring wh…

Department of Health and Human Services should put some social media sites inside a federal public health order, effectively banning them.

Re: Turkey determined to control social media platforms, Erdogan says

#106

Post by luckylion » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 3:41 PM UTC

grishka wrote: post #72

Every time I see news like this I can't help but wonder what would happen if federated social media becomes mainstream. All these attempts to regulate social media generally revolve around there being a "platform", it being a company, it caring about profits, it having a legal department etc. It all falls apart spectacularly if you frame social media as something intertwined with the internet itself, with no central…

It will require TOR or similar systems though, otherwise each federated instance transporting some content that is deemed illegal will be targeted. Authorities can't win the war, but they can make the damage for individual targets very large, thereby making most people shy away from it at all, like they are doing for TOR exit nodes in many jurisdictions.

But once it's on TOR, it'll be similar to the DNMs for drugs: once it's out of the bag, you can stamp out individual sites, but the system is there to stay.

Re: Turkey determined to control social media platforms, Erdogan says

#107

Post by brnt » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 3:43 PM UTC

hansjorg wrote: post #98

ashtonkem wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s also a good way to cast doubt on something indirectly, without having to explicitly enumerate any factual disagreements.

This is a GO masquerading as an NGO. A caveat lector is appropriate whenever someone brings them up.

I was with you until your used to word 'masquerading'. Nothing about Freedom House is a masquerade. If you don't share sources, then don't please write such things.

[edit] Can't reply below: Freedom House is NOT the State Department. They're a funder, but not the only one. So your description still in incorrect or requires sourcing.

Re: Turkey determined to control social media platforms, Erdogan says

#108

Post by augustt » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 3:45 PM UTC

umvi wrote: post #101

pjc50 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The statues are not arbitrary and many of them have been objected to for years. Similarly, US police have been routinely murdering people for years. What social media has done is allow the creation of a "headless" protest movement that can outrun attempts to take it down. In both cases, some people have leapt in and gone too far because they enjoy the chaos, but don't let that obscure the real issues. No, the problem…

> The statues are not arbitrary and many of them have been objected to for years. Christopher Columbus and Francis Scott Key aren't arbitrary? It's not like they were removed by a democratic process. The majority had no say. A loud minority decided they needed to come down for arbitrary reasons and did it without permission. Anyone challenging them would be browbeaten by the loud minority mobs on social media and can…

Columbus has been a point of contention for a while now. Regardless, corporations are not saying BLM because some tiny segment of the country thinks that. A majority of America supports the movement, and that's being reflected by PR now.

The last line of defense for conservatives is "well actually there's a silent majority that thinks otherwise" and "actually most people don't care, they're just virtue signaling". And this works well when the Fox+ apparatus are the ones creating boogeymen out of minor things like CHAZ.

Re: Turkey determined to control social media platforms, Erdogan says

#109

Post by rayiner » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 3:46 PM UTC

umvi wrote: post #101

pjc50 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The statues are not arbitrary and many of them have been objected to for years. Similarly, US police have been routinely murdering people for years. What social media has done is allow the creation of a "headless" protest movement that can outrun attempts to take it down. In both cases, some people have leapt in and gone too far because they enjoy the chaos, but don't let that obscure the real issues. No, the problem…

> The statues are not arbitrary and many of them have been objected to for years. Christopher Columbus and Francis Scott Key aren't arbitrary? It's not like they were removed by a democratic process. The majority had no say. A loud minority decided they needed to come down for arbitrary reasons and did it without permission. Anyone challenging them would be browbeaten by the loud minority mobs on social media and can…

> Christopher Columbus

I’ve been calling for the cancellation of Columbus since at least 2015. In part because he was a genocidal maniac. But mainly because it would give us an excuse to turn Columbus Circle in DC into a proper intersection.

Re: Turkey determined to control social media platforms, Erdogan says

#110

Post by briefcomment » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 3:48 PM UTC

salmonfamine wrote: post #100

briefcomment wrote: post #24

In a dictatorship, cracking down on social media is a no brainer. But I think social media undermines democracies as well. Social media vastly amplifies loud minorities. Democracy assumes that the majority of people are reasonable, so majority rule will also be reasonable. Loud minorities undermine majority rule. Loud minorities have always existed, but social media is now amplifying them to the point of obscuring wh…

I think we're encountering a fundamental conflict between an unregulated free market and a digital economy that doesn't have any notion of scarcity or cost. The old paradigm just doesn't fit. And the result is that a handful of tech employees and billionaires can wield outsized influence over the dominant media channels and public forums of the entire world without any democratic input or regulatory oversight. The fa…

Lots of worthwhile points here.

> And the result is that a handful of tech employees and billionaires can wield outsized influence over the dominant media channels and public forums of the entire world without any democratic input or regulatory oversight.

This is probably the biggest threat to democracy, and to 90% of the population