Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

We use too many damn modals (2018)

modalzmodalzmodalz.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 127 posts

Re: We use too many damn modals (2018)

#101

Post by gindely »

saagarjha wrote: post #43

One thing I like to do is preview a link by Force clicking on it in my browser and scrolling through it–the preview window lets me scroll, but not interact with the page. For many sites this is quite convenient, because I can skim the page without being interrupted. But when modals pop up they cover the content and I can't read the page because I can't dismiss them! So if you're looking for another reason to drop mod…

What does that mean? Force clicking? You apply so much pressue that it breaks a touchscreen/touchpad so that it makes a click noise when you tap?

Re: We use too many damn modals (2018)

#102

Post by gindely »

waheoo wrote: post #77
supernova87a wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. It's a stretch (at least for me) to see the connection between a window that shows you some data, or a toggle, or some arbitrary information and the idea that the window should be called "modal" as if it controls some "mode".

Youre misunderstanding that definitions position if you think it has something to do with modes. > in which the predicate is affirmed of the subject with some qualification, E.g. an error with an error message Or > or which involves the affirmation of possibility, impossibility, necessity, or contingency. E.g. an are you sure? dialog preceeding a save.

You're radically misunderstanding that definition.

It has to do with the notions that are expressed by "can, should, might, must, has to" etc. These words (most of them are called "modal verbs" in English) modify a proposition in such a way that they do not mean it happened/happens/whatever, but qualify it, or indicate its possibility etc. So "he's going out now" is a proposition. "He can go out now" modifies that proposition - no longer are we affirming it, but merely affirming the possibility or permissability of it.

Nothing about "are you sure" is modal. A modal dialog is called modal because the mode of the program has changed - no longer can it accept requests to delete articles or add text or modify an avatar, but it is now in a mode when you can either say "delete this" or "don't delete this".

In particular, if you showed an inline prompt that says "are you sure? delete/cancel" but still allows you to interact with the rest of the system, it's not modal.

Re: We use too many damn modals (2018)

#103

Post by gindely »

winrid wrote: post #100
gindely wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since you deny a weird context switch for your eyes, are these actually inline elements? That would imply the size of the containers is changing. Which would surely be a weird context switch. But at least I can have no doubt what my action is about to affect - I get frustrated on sites when it says "you're about to delete these items" and i have no idea whether it agrees with me about which items I'm about to delete…

This is what I mean: http://imgur.com/a/hY9eM77 Content size doesn't change in my case and I would highly advise against changing the sizing of elements on the page for something like this. The buttons are sized vertical based on the content up to a limit.

Yep okay, so I guess that's not inline by my definition (since it overlays the text). I have definitely seen webpages that change the size of the containing box to add in the confirmation message and buttons.

I guess it's an between case I didn't consider - it's maybe not modal with respect to the whole app, but it seems to be modal with respect to that one comment (you can ignore it and do something else with the rest of the program, but with that comment, you can't even read it).

Re: We use too many damn modals (2018)

#104

Post by gindely »

tobr wrote: post #96
gindely wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well yeah, but if the person who is in charge of the modal is the implementer, not the designer, then they may not have the expertise to design a good ui. And many designers are artists ("designers") not ux engineers, so their main goal is to make something that shows their artistic skill - they're going to be trained in design packages, not designing a good ui. (I mean, when was the last time you saw a clickable but…

> if the person who is in charge of the modal is the implementer, not the designer, then they may not have the expertise to design a good ui Isn’t the obvious fix there to let the designer design and the implementer implement? Obviously if the designer is kept out of the loop completely they may not even be in a position to argue for the importance of good design (or just any design process), but then it shouldn’t be…

Well for many programs there isn't really any separate designer, particularly for line of business apps. That was really where I was coming from - the person who designs the app is simply someone who was trained in coding.

In any case, as I said, you get a problem if the person who designs the app is simply someone who was trained in coding, and you get a problem if they're simply someone who was trained in art.

Re: We use too many damn modals (2018)

#105

Post by saagarjha »

gindely wrote: post #101
saagarjha wrote: post #43

One thing I like to do is preview a link by Force clicking on it in my browser and scrolling through it–the preview window lets me scroll, but not interact with the page. For many sites this is quite convenient, because I can skim the page without being interrupted. But when modals pop up they cover the content and I can't read the page because I can't dismiss them! So if you're looking for another reason to drop mod…

What does that mean? Force clicking? You apply so much pressue that it breaks a touchscreen/touchpad so that it makes a click noise when you tap?

In case that wasn’t a joke: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204352

Re: We use too many damn modals (2018)

#106

Post by gindely »

saagarjha wrote: post #105
gindely wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does that mean? Force clicking? You apply so much pressue that it breaks a touchscreen/touchpad so that it makes a click noise when you tap?

In case that wasn’t a joke: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204352

Oh, another of Apple's hidden features. Once upon a time, one button mice were a feature so that features weren't hidden and even beginner users could quickly become power users.

Re: We use too many damn modals (2018)

#107

Post by saagarjha »

gindely wrote: post #106
saagarjha wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In case that wasn’t a joke: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204352

Oh, another of Apple's hidden features. Once upon a time, one button mice were a feature so that features weren't hidden and even beginner users could quickly become power users.

This used to be three-finger tap on older Macs.

Re: We use too many damn modals (2018)

#108

Post by Kaze404 »

gindely wrote: post #98
Kaze404 wrote: post #72

This is only tangentially related, but one thing I'm absolutely sick of is rounded corners. I don't know why, and I don't know if it makes any sense, but opening a page and seeing literally everything with border-radius makes my blood boil. It feels like they're trying to protect me from sharp corners, as if they're dangerous. Come on, we're all adults here. We can take a few 90 degree angles.

> Come on, we're all adults here. We can take a few 90 degree angles. I know that 90 degree angles on webpages are not more dangerous for children, parents, adults, or any other known subcategory of humans than for any other known subcategory of humans, but ... lots of people who use webpages and dev tools are actually children. Didn't a lot of us get started as kids? Have we collectively forgotten the olden days, wh…

Fair enough, but some of the worst offenders of this aren't really targeted at children or something they'd be interested in. The new Github UI (which I adore, besides this particular issue) is a really bad offender for example. If you go to your profile page, there's not a single not-round border. The exception are the little squares showing activity, which makes it even worse because in the caption underneath they are rounded. What happened there?

Re: We use too many damn modals (2018)

#109

Post by grumple »

yowlingcat wrote: post #69
grumple wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, you never really find out until you work somewhere.

True that may be, if you are not uncovering this during your interview process, do you think it's possible there's room for improvement in how you conduct your end of the due diligence process?

Unfortunately, the CTO that hired me left the company two weeks after I started which caused a significant cultural shift. I did my due diligence, no need for the virtual gaslighting.

Re: We use too many damn modals (2018)

#110

Post by ozaark »

andreareina wrote: post #89
ozaark wrote: post #52

The key design principle overlooked here is Progressive Disclosure[1], which modals and dialogs can be very good at delivering. Progressive disclosure retains user focus on a single task as opposed to showing everything at once. Accordions have similar function to modals and dialogs but adding further task controls to an already complex interface isn't always the best solution. The author goes on to state that even f…

TFA is not saying all modals are bad, just most. Progressive disclosure is a fine thing, but that doesn't have to mean modals. Most of the time a discreet notification that doesn't interrupt the user's flow is what's appropriate; I think Tidal does a good job here, by highlighting one feature per screen, and if I don't tap on it to see what it is I'm able to go about my way. Since we're quoting NNGroup, here's their…

TFA literally says don't use full screen modals, ever. I disagreed with examples of that not being necessarily relevant with the way today's applications can work.

Important from the NNGroup article you linked even demonstrates great modal usage and states "3. Modal dialogs can be used to fragment a complex workflow into simpler steps." and "4. Use modal dialogs to ask for information that, when provided, could significantly lessen users’ work or effort."

That's important - modals are not just intrusive pop-ups as many designers and others in this thread have decided that they are. Again, every element can be used inappropriately but that doesn't mean the elements are to blame.

Post reply on HN