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ARM Mac: Why I'm Worried About Virtualization

bmalehorn.com

101–110 of 313 posts

Re: ARM Mac: Why I'm Worried About Virtualization

#101

It didn’t take months, the time I did it (running Docker on a Pinebook, which was not a great experience). It took a couple of hours to flip some base images away from Alpine, as Debian already has a load of ARM packages built.

This assumes that your Docker workload can run on an ARM system without lots of hacking, and also that you trust the ARM-compiled version you're running locally to function identically to the x86-compiled version running on your server.

No, it doesn't. If I'd made the statement "all you need to do is…" then it would have involved some assumptions. What I said was "I did this and all it took was…" no assumptions, just experience.

Re: ARM Mac: Why I'm Worried About Virtualization

#102

It didn’t take months, the time I did it (running Docker on a Pinebook, which was not a great experience). It took a couple of hours to flip some base images away from Alpine, as Debian already has a load of ARM packages built.

This assumes that your Docker workload can run on an ARM system without lots of hacking, and also that you trust the ARM-compiled version you're running locally to function identically to the x86-compiled version running on your server.

If only people writing applications could find some way of testing that their apps function properly.

Re: ARM Mac: Why I'm Worried About Virtualization

#103
> Docker on a Mac utilizes a hypervisor. Hypervisors rely on running the same architecture on the host as the guest, and are about about 1x - 2x as slow as running natively.

That doesnt sound right to me. Perhaps on IO bound tasks, if you are using emulated devices. On CPU bound tasks you should see near native performance.

Re: ARM Mac: Why I'm Worried About Virtualization

#104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s a good moment to make your c/c++ code more robust, and cross-platform, like the languages they are

The problem wasn't in our code, it was in the database code that was either from open source or from a vendor. If you want a sample. Try to install the cassandra client library in python. It will pull in and compile all sort of shit. That's supposed to be python and easily cross platform.

Yes, so time for them to clean up their mess ;)

Re: ARM Mac: Why I'm Worried About Virtualization

#105
post #3

Apple will singlehandedly make 2021 "the year of Linux on the desktop".

Every time Microsoft or Apple majorly screws something up, people say this. It still hasn't happened yet. However, I think Apple has been a far greater threat to Linux adoption than Microsoft. Why? Because it gives techies the *nix environment they want, with the software and hardware support no one will give them on Linux. There is real value in proprietary commercial end-user application software. Most companies wh…

If Microsoft had been more serious regarding POSIX personality, Linux would never had taken off.

Most devs only want some kind of CLI and POSIX like capabilities.

Re: ARM Mac: Why I'm Worried About Virtualization

#106
When I ask Mac-loving developers, why they chose to run MacOS when developing non-MacOS software, they used to give me good reasons.

I think their reasoning is no longer valid. The hardware has gotten worse (keyboard, touchbar), the OS has gotten more hostile, meanwhile the state of Linux on Laptop has gotten a lot better. So... I used to understand them, but I no longer do.

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/016/674/802...

Re: ARM Mac: Why I'm Worried About Virtualization

#107

This seems like a weird benchmark, reading from /dev/urandom and gzipping random data does not seem like something most folks will want to do. It even appears like /dev/urandom speeds differ greatly on various architectures [0] and there are issues with /dev/random being fundamentally slow due to the entropy pool [1] (but I guess this is why the author uses /dev/urandom). It would be better to measure something more…

Author here. I'm glad somebody said something! Yes the gzip perf test is pretty silly, but illustrates a significant difference. /dev/urandom throughput on this setup was about 100 MB / s so it wasn't a bottleneck for this test - the bottlneck was gzip. Feel free to come up with a performance test yourself! I personally want to know what an HTTP test would look like. You can run an ARM image by running: docker run -i…

So I'm not familiar with how Darwin does things, but on most FOSS unixes it's easy to use qemu to run one arch on another, either full system or just user mode emulation (which when wired up correctly lets you seamlessly execute ex. ARM binaries on an x86 system). I would expect it to be easy enough to either set up user mode translation, or just swap Docker's backing hypervisor with an x86 VM. Or, worst case, just run qemu-system-x86_64 on your ARM Mac, run Linux inside that VM, and run Docker on that Linux; SSH in and it should be mostly transparent.

Re: ARM Mac: Why I'm Worried About Virtualization

#108

It didn’t take months, the time I did it (running Docker on a Pinebook, which was not a great experience). It took a couple of hours to flip some base images away from Alpine, as Debian already has a load of ARM packages built.

> It took a couple of hours to flip some base images away from Alpine, as Debian already has a load of ARM packages built.

Why did you have to switch from Alpine to Debian? Alpine supports ARM quite happily, and it looks like they're shipping Docker images for ARM (and other architectures, too).

Re: ARM Mac: Why I'm Worried About Virtualization

#109
post #34

Do we know that Boot Camp isn’t supported by Big Sur? Or is it just that one can’t run an x86 OS on an ARM architecture? In other words - will I still be able to dual-boot into something like ARM-flavored Linux?

one can’t run an x86 OS on an ARM architecture This is the limitation. There is an ARM version of Windows, but the comments from Microsoft don't sound terribly promising: “Microsoft only licenses Windows 10 on ARM to OEMs. We have nothing further to share at this time.” [1] And Apple has more firmly stated that this won't be an option: “We’re not direct booting an alternate operating system,” says Craig Federighi, Ap…

And the iPhone didn’t permit native third part apps when launched. Not because they weren’t ready to announce it yet but because at launch time they figured web apps would be enough.

I have no idea what plans they might have but I would be surprised if you couldn’t install some ARM Linux distros on their laptops sometime next year.

Re: ARM Mac: Why I'm Worried About Virtualization

#110
I use docker every day and I guess I’m just not worried about this. The container pushes come from a CI host, so I’m not worried about compatibility.

And it’s 20% slower? Well, most of the build time is slow for all sorts of reasons. I honestly don’t think I’ll even notice.

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