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Video Games Are the Future of Education

nabeelqu.co

101–110 of 392 posts

Re: Video Games Are the Future of Education

#101
Video games can teach you a lot of valuable skills that apply to the real world. I play Heroes of the Storm at a fairly high level and I've experienced many improvements in cognition as a direct result. It's important to note that this is a team-based game in which "carrying" isn't often possible, so you're forced to rely on your team in order to win.

Some examples of how it has helped me improve:

* Situational awareness and object tracking. Looking at the minimap frequently so I know the last location of each enemy and predicting where they will be moving based on the current state of the match. As a result, I've gotten much better at driving and I feel considerably safer since I can keep track of everything in my surroundings. The car's mirrors are basically your minimap while driving. This same algorithm applies to other real-life situations as well.

* Communication. I've learned how to communicate more effectively to push the team towards victory. It might feel satisfying to insult someone for playing poorly, but that's rarely a winning strategy. Bad players are usually ignorant and they lack a deep understanding of how to play the game. If you provide constructive criticism in a non-hostile or aggressive manner your allies will most often try to integrate that information. Of course, there's all sorts of people, and if someone is unwilling to listen then you just have to play around them as best as possible. Sometimes this means you have to take bad engagement and try to turn things around. This is just learning how to better interact with people.

* Self-awareness and self-responsibility. It's tempting to blame your allies when you make a mistake or a bad call. Sometimes it's definitely their fault, but recognize that you're not perfect and you also make mistakes. Own your failures, don't let your ego get in the way of your growth. Your allies will take your calls more seriously if they see that you're open and honest. Learn to take criticism. Sometimes it's justified and other times it's not, try to integrate the lessons when it's reasonable.

Ever since I started weight training daily I've also experienced improvements in my reaction time, which has had a direct and positive impact on my gaming skills. When I'm hyper-focused on a game, it feels like it's moving in slow-motion and I have way more time to think through each decision.

When I started playing this game I could barely keep track of fights with all of the enemies and spells flying around everywhere. My cursor would frequently get lost in the turmoil and I would just try to spam my abilities into the blob of lights and animations. Now I can largely keep track of each hero, their abilities, and the timings of everything.

Re: Video Games Are the Future of Education

#102
My game design lecturer was a CEO of a serious games company. Now, they are making regular games.

Some games are used to train soldiers, as far as I know.

I also read, that companies should hire MMORPG clan leaders, because they usually know how to lead ppl.

Re: Video Games Are the Future of Education

#103
post #59

I own a educational game company. Long story short: it doesn't sell. At my company we identified, at least if your target is kids, two ways to sell edu games. 1. Sell them to institutions, like governments, schools, companies, whatever. Thing is, the features they look when choosing a game to buy, are ones most likely to make the game unfun, the end result is often boring stuff noone WANTS to play. 2. Sell them to th…

I think it's this simple:

Making successful, novel games is very difficult. Most people/groups fail.

Adding an educational component multiplies the unlikely probability of success by a very unhelpful coefficient.

Adrenaline, story, polish -- this aspects now compete with an educational aspect.

Re: Video Games Are the Future of Education

#104
post #59

I own a educational game company. Long story short: it doesn't sell. At my company we identified, at least if your target is kids, two ways to sell edu games. 1. Sell them to institutions, like governments, schools, companies, whatever. Thing is, the features they look when choosing a game to buy, are ones most likely to make the game unfun, the end result is often boring stuff noone WANTS to play. 2. Sell them to th…

Another issue is that majority of parents of 4-8 years old have zero motivation to buy educational game.

I mean, I would not buy it either unless it is something super special or I am dealing with a problem.

Re: Video Games Are the Future of Education

#105
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is it any different from selling any other non-entertainment service? #1 Institutions means administrators with budgets. a) What do they want their budgets to do? b) These things are presumably on networked computers. Can you aggregate and present data to those purse-string holders to justify their expense on an ongoing basis? Do your stats make their spending look smart? #2 The public means people who spend mone…

I’ve served on a school board and can say at a high level that parents get pretty crazy about weird things, games included. Boring stuff that checks boxes is the safe answer for an institution. If it’s fun, the school will get bombarded with complaints about taxpayers paying for games, the devil inside the computer, etc. Parents tend to not care or think about outcomes if the angry box is ticked. The best fun things…

> The best fun things are maker projects. The tangible outcome is understandable to people. The educational content/value varies though.

Yeah, every parent these days seems to have the attitude "god forbid we teach more than one algorithm for addition, but it's unacceptable that you don't have CS in middle school!" And even get outright angry if you try to point out that teaching more than one algorithm that meets the specifications of addition over naturals is CS. But have the kids "build" some kit robot and you're a damn hero.

The most frustrating thing about education is trying to explain to voters why their child has to learn something (at a young age) that the parent doesn't understand.

You see this a lot in parental complaints about Common Core math.

Over-involved stay-at-home moms who still can't add double digit numbers without using their fingers will complain that they don't understand their first grader's math homework. The point of the math homework is to teach mental math strategies for adding numbers together.

Also, parents of fifth grade kids who are frustrated that they can't help their kids understand conditional probabilities, and express that frustration by telling us to "stop teaching their kids about gambling".

It's impossible as a school board member to say "look, it's embarrassing that 10 year old German kids are better than you at math. Sorry we failed you. We're trying to do better by your kid."

Re: Video Games Are the Future of Education

#106

The author claims “where games mostly fall short is that they’re not that transferable to the real world. The skills you learn are highly specific to that game,” but “this will change,” because the cost of game development is decreasing. But his conclusion doesn’t follow; we might get more educational games, but not necessarily ones with skills that are more generalisable. As someone who’s spent the last 15 years mak…

@adrianhon: here's my trick. Instead of creating serious games. Teach people to be serious players! I have learned a ton from the following games: - Poker (statistics) - Any game (English) - Factorio (programming / software design) - Warcraft 3 (mental arithmetic and resource management) - World of Warcraft (market manipulation -- I created a temporary monopoly on an item and earned 500 gold within an hour as level 2…

[For kids] I think you can rule out any online game, or any gambling game (both will be age restricted). Saying that, teaching kids how to play cards is probably worth it. Board games are generally good for mental arithmetic, particularly Monopoly. And there are less "gambley" card games that teach statistics - Bridge, for example. Pretty much any card game which forces you to assess the odds of what your opponents have.

There are some decent puzzle video games out there. I grew up playing The Logical Journey of the Zoombinis, which was essentially a series of puzzles where you had to figure out the rules (Mastermind style) or your blue fellas wouldn't make it to the promised land. Some of the puzzles were genuinely hard and it was one of the few standout educational games I remember. I like this Steam review:

> This game is exactly how I remember it. And that's a good thing. Zoombinis is about a group of refugees who look for home on a new land. You get to meet many racist locals who discriminate you based on your appearance and you can work as a slave by making countless pizzas for an insufferable anthropomorphic tree stump. 10/10. Highly recommended.

I wondered about general RPGs or adventure games, but while those are fun (and good for language), the puzzles tend not to be that educational IMO. A lot of the time your performance depends on how well you can guess what the developer intended - these are not perfect worlds, but you play as if they are, so actions you might expect to perform often don't work. I definitely used GameFAQs a lot growing up.

That said - I did learn about the concept of reliably seeding PRNGs to make enemies drop the best loot in Golden Sun.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoombinis

Re: Video Games Are the Future of Education

#107

The author claims “where games mostly fall short is that they’re not that transferable to the real world. The skills you learn are highly specific to that game,” but “this will change,” because the cost of game development is decreasing. But his conclusion doesn’t follow; we might get more educational games, but not necessarily ones with skills that are more generalisable. As someone who’s spent the last 15 years mak…

@adrianhon: here's my trick. Instead of creating serious games. Teach people to be serious players! I have learned a ton from the following games: - Poker (statistics) - Any game (English) - Factorio (programming / software design) - Warcraft 3 (mental arithmetic and resource management) - World of Warcraft (market manipulation -- I created a temporary monopoly on an item and earned 500 gold within an hour as level 2…

I learned a lot about statistics from Pokémon.

My friend went to school for statistics because of it.

Re: Video Games Are the Future of Education

#108

The author claims “where games mostly fall short is that they’re not that transferable to the real world. The skills you learn are highly specific to that game,” but “this will change,” because the cost of game development is decreasing. But his conclusion doesn’t follow; we might get more educational games, but not necessarily ones with skills that are more generalisable. As someone who’s spent the last 15 years mak…

@adrianhon: here's my trick. Instead of creating serious games. Teach people to be serious players! I have learned a ton from the following games: - Poker (statistics) - Any game (English) - Factorio (programming / software design) - Warcraft 3 (mental arithmetic and resource management) - World of Warcraft (market manipulation -- I created a temporary monopoly on an item and earned 500 gold within an hour as level 2…

The time spent vs how much one learned is pretty bad tho. And also related, games like world of warcraft are massive time sunk.

Re: Video Games Are the Future of Education

#109
post #77
post #59

I own a educational game company. Long story short: it doesn't sell. At my company we identified, at least if your target is kids, two ways to sell edu games. 1. Sell them to institutions, like governments, schools, companies, whatever. Thing is, the features they look when choosing a game to buy, are ones most likely to make the game unfun, the end result is often boring stuff noone WANTS to play. 2. Sell them to th…

How is it any different from selling any other non-entertainment service? #1 Institutions means administrators with budgets. a) What do they want their budgets to do? b) These things are presumably on networked computers. Can you aggregate and present data to those purse-string holders to justify their expense on an ongoing basis? Do your stats make their spending look smart? #2 The public means people who spend mone…

> a) What do they want their budgets to do?

Increase test scores, keep themselves employed and friendly SB members in office, and reform the institution/field in their image (or, for the cynical ones, make them look like leaders in the field). In that order. And lots of other stuff that's not really relevant to software (e.g., maintain the physical plant, retain good teachers, etc.)

> #2 The public means people who spend money on things for kids. Likely parents.

Meh. IME parents have almost no influence in software purchasing decisions (because they mostly just don't care). Even the board doesn't really dive that deep into the administration's budgets unless they're considering a change-of-command. In fact, the superintendent might not even weigh in on software depending on the size of the district. Activist yahoos might gripe about budget items, but can usually be safely ignored. Especially for software, which is often a rounding error even in the IT portion of the budget.

Re: Video Games Are the Future of Education

#110
Implicit in this argument is an egocentric and individualistic viewpoint in universalizing how the author learned as "the future" a.k.a. the way everyone should learn. I don't fault the author for having this, many people do. I wish the author reflected on the role of social factors in education. Learning in this post is something that's thought of as individualized, which is something that educators and cultural psychologists have pushed back on for decades. It totally ignores the role of teachers.

Consider: "AI will make humans vastly more effective by automating tedious tasks." Sure, but which humans? If games are indeed "the future," let's pay teachers even less than we do now, or fire them --that will be the response. That's in fact what Graham says --"I had examples to work from, but no teachers or classes." Let's be real here: Graham's father was a nuclear physicist, he likely grew up rich, and he attended Ivy League schools. Maybe he "didn't need teachers" because, I don't know, his home life was very supportive and he knew how to engage in the dominant, elite American culture? I like Graham here, but c'mon man.

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