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Gatsby raises $28M Series B led by Index Ventures

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Re: Gatsby raises $28M Series B led by Index Ventures

#101
post #89

Yet again another company with mangled communications, please, please, would be Engineers making products, make sure that you communicate 'what it is' above all else. The top-level marketing jargon is always the same: "Make your site in minutes, not weeks! Deploy globally! Uses modern tech" Sure, that's ok. But the 'How it works' visual on the page explains nothing really, it's just a pile of buzzwords. The 'QuickSta…

I agree. The website is constricting its audience.

Gatsby is a static[1] site generator of sorts. It compiles your source code/text into a HTML site at design time. So you don't have to rely on setting up a database and server for your website. It is not quite like other static site generators like Hugo or Jekyll. They use markdown files which are compiled to HTML. Gatsby instead uses javascript files with functions that return HTML that is rendered as a page. By using a programming language to define web pages, the designer gets some flexibility when creating a static site.

It is different from a dynamic[2] hosting application like Wordpress where you have a database entry which is queried and rendered into a page at run time.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Static_web_page [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_web_page

Re: Gatsby raises $28M Series B led by Index Ventures

#102

I initially got very frustrated with Gatsby. Most new web frameworks makes things easier and faster. Gatsby is not about making a website easier to make. Its about making really fast websites easier to make. Its complicated: you need to use GraphQL to load an image, and you need to choose the right query based on what component you're using. Eventually, I embraced the complexity, and the plugin system really helps. O…

Have you tried Nextjs? which does not force you to write GraphQL.

Re: Gatsby raises $28M Series B led by Index Ventures

#103
post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's different from wordpress, for the reason I mentioned above. The main value proposition of static site generators COMPARED TO 1st generation CMS like Wordpress is that they don't require a database and are lightweight and portable. It is common sense that not everyone will want to run their own database and a server, so a wordpress.com makes sense. But static sites can be deployed anywhere and there already is a…

The kicker with Gatsby is it’s actually not compatible with GitHub or any hosting where you can’t control caching headers. Gatsby relies on page-data.json files to not be cached[1] in order to work correctly. This is not possible with GitHub pages. After deploying a new version of the site, some users will use a cached version of page-data.json which can cause them to see a flash of the new data that quickly gets rep…

Or only partially replaced, such that some React components get updated and some don't so if you have i.e. a list of stuff with text and pictures, the text will get updated but the pictures will not. It's a mess

Re: Gatsby raises $28M Series B led by Index Ventures

#104
post #3

I just don't get Gatsby. It feels over-engineered for the small static site use cases it is the best tool for and definitely not a good alternative to dynamically generated pages from other frameworks like Next.js, Rails, Django, etc. Maybe the engineers that preceded me on the Gatsby project I worked on took a wrong turn but we ended up with long build times and ever growing complexity around the create pages functi…

Currently working on a project using gatsby, have had some big wins but other things have been a pain. The single biggest feature you get is SSR rendering for an application built in react. There are lots of little goodies like Gatsby Image and Gatsby Link that are actually really awesome. I personally am not that huge of a fan of the graphQl layer, we have been using it with basic use cases and still have run into i…

Maybe give a try to Next.js. It does pretty much the same thing. And it does not require graphQL locked-in.

Re: Gatsby raises $28M Series B led by Index Ventures

#105
post #3

I just don't get Gatsby. It feels over-engineered for the small static site use cases it is the best tool for and definitely not a good alternative to dynamically generated pages from other frameworks like Next.js, Rails, Django, etc. Maybe the engineers that preceded me on the Gatsby project I worked on took a wrong turn but we ended up with long build times and ever growing complexity around the create pages functi…

I think you have got it right. I own dozens of static websites from 100 pages to 1M pages. I am the ideal customer for a company like Gatsby. I had all the content in my mysql and accessible through a REST api. I had python scripts that would pull data from REST and generate .MD files which then Jekyll would convert to static sites. Everything worked fairly well except long build times for the 1M pages site which was…

A million statically generated pages seems to be an interesting use case (also your use of cloud run suggests it's not high traffic). Is this common at all though?

Re: Gatsby raises $28M Series B led by Index Ventures

#106
post #3

I just don't get Gatsby. It feels over-engineered for the small static site use cases it is the best tool for and definitely not a good alternative to dynamically generated pages from other frameworks like Next.js, Rails, Django, etc. Maybe the engineers that preceded me on the Gatsby project I worked on took a wrong turn but we ended up with long build times and ever growing complexity around the create pages functi…

We use Gatsby for our landing[0] (and are also in the process of moving the main SaaS dashboard to it) and the experience has been nothing but amazing. Page loads almost instantly with little manual optimization required and compile time rendering makes deployment really simple - unlike Next.js you do not have to fiddle with production SSR using serverless functions or a separate node server. The only issue with Gats…

> unlike Next.js you do not have to fiddle with production SSR using serverless functions or a separate node server.

If I’ve understood your comment I don’t think this is still a problem as of Next 9.3. There have been some pretty big improvements since Next hit v9

https://nextjs.org/blog/next-9-3#next-gen-static-site-genera...

Re: Gatsby raises $28M Series B led by Index Ventures

#107
I used Gatsby about a year ago for a personal blog, but ended up abandoning it for the following reasons:

- Very slow build times. It took me over a minute to build a personal blog. - Weird forced implementation of GraphQL. To display something as simple as an image I was forced to use GraphQL. Also your GraphQL can't be dynamically generated, meaning it's hard to make anything modular. And the GraphQL paths has a ton of extraneous nested fields (eg. `data.file.childImageSharp.fixed`) - Version upgrades were a pain in the ass and would often break my site. - My site actually seemed slow. For example, links don't work until the entire JS loads and executes, so if your internet isn't fast then your website basically isn't functional for the first 2-5 seconds despite the page being visible. - Very few themes (maybe be better now, but at the time the selection was awful, especially compared to Jekyll). No real concept of themes in the first place, switching from one theme to another requires an entire code rewrite. - Limited functionality built-in. For example, want tagging? You'll need to code that in.

Gatsby sits in an odd spot of not being simple enough to save you a lot of time or empower a non-technical person to manage (eg. like WordPress), but not flexible enough to do anything you want since it's an opinionated SSG framework. It's like you're getting all the complexity of a React/GraphQL application, without any of the flexibility of being able to pick your own stack.

Sure it has a nice plugin system, but beyond that since you need a developer to set up and maintain a Gatsby site anyways, I don't see any reason not to just use Next.js (which can export to static) since all Gatsby really does beyond that is converting markdown to HTML, which is just done through an npm library anyways. If writing a Next.js website is overkill, then why do you need to be devoting engineering resources to this in the first place? Why not just use some no-code solution like WordPress? Or if you really want a separate headless CMS, then Jekyll felt easier and faster to me with more theme options (though again it's been a year since I touched these, so I imagine things have improved).

Don't get me wrong I love SSGs as nothing beats the performance, ease of deployment, and low cost of static sites. But if I'm going to use a SSG framework, it better be dead simple and/or easy to customize, otherwise I might as well just use some off-the-shelf "no-code" solution (eg. WordPress, Wix, Squarespace), or use a framework like Next.js that let's me customize my stack instead of being locked into Gatsby's. Gatsby's $200m valuation makes absolutely no sense to me unless they're planning some drastic changes I'm not aware of.

Re: Gatsby raises $28M Series B led by Index Ventures

#108
post #89

Yet again another company with mangled communications, please, please, would be Engineers making products, make sure that you communicate 'what it is' above all else. The top-level marketing jargon is always the same: "Make your site in minutes, not weeks! Deploy globally! Uses modern tech" Sure, that's ok. But the 'How it works' visual on the page explains nothing really, it's just a pile of buzzwords. The 'QuickSta…

I agree. The website is constricting its audience. Gatsby is a static[1] site generator of sorts. It compiles your source code/text into a HTML site at design time. So you don't have to rely on setting up a database and server for your website. It is not quite like other static site generators like Hugo or Jekyll. They use markdown files which are compiled to HTML. Gatsby instead uses javascript files with functions…

So this is exactly it. Reading this 'I get it'.

A variation of what you wrote that should be on the landing page.

Re: Gatsby raises $28M Series B led by Index Ventures

#109
post #56
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nextjs does the same thing. That's not a business model. A business model doesn't need to be unique in order to be successful. Also Gatsby is open source, so I wouldn't expect to find profits falling out of the core library. They make their money through consulting and cloud ops. > adds complexity that wastes developer time Every framework comes with its own flavor of complexity. To blanket say that Gatsby wastes t…

It's also just plain fun to use, IMO. I built a site using Gatsby for a product I'm helping with ( https://greeter.ai/ ) and it was a really fun and enjoyable experience. The site is blazing fast. The ease of React integration, Node modules, Gatsby plugins, etc., further add to developer productivity and enjoyment. I see a really bright future for slick, fast, well-documented solutions that significantly depart from…

It’s funny, because I did just as your post suggests and built my latest personal site using Gatsby and Tailwind and it was an overall positive experience. I loved that I didn't have to do any design (although, sure, you could argue that might be a negative in terms of the result) and the build/deploy process was really simple with Netlify.

My previous sites were built with Wordpress and before that I used AMFPHP and Flash (over 10 years ago!). This was a breeze compared to those sites.

Re: Gatsby raises $28M Series B led by Index Ventures

#110

it's kind of ironic that the main value proposition of static site generators like Gatsby is that it's just a file so it's portable and you can take them anywhere, instead of getting locked into server/client based database systems, yet here they are, trying to monetize by building the "the best way to build and maintain Gatsby sites". From my point of view, if they succeed in achieving that goal, that means Gatsby t…

That's just going with the WordPress model. You can install WP anywhere, but for convenience you can pay a small fee and speed things up. But I also think that 28mill is outrageously lot of money for what the service is. True SV scale :)

I think we need to take over evaluations as a serious signal of danger in the economy. They are a signal of the advancing size of the financial class - which I think will have massively negative consequences.

My thinking here is heavily influenced by this documentary I just watched:

https://youtu.be/AFIxi7BiScI

I've just been triggered by your smiley face.

"Silicon Valley Scale" is an error for humanity, in my opinion.

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