Shopify Goes Digital by Default • Hacker News Board

Re: Shopify Goes Digital by Default

#101

Post by rb808 » Thu, May 21, 2020, 4:36 PM UTC

MattGaiser wrote: post #62

I am curious about the sustainability of work from home for truly team-based work. I get to develop features independently, so if I am given the spec, I have no need to speak to anyone for the rest of the day except for a couple messages with QA. For me, it is great. But I am essentially a microservice with defined inputs and outputs. For the people who actually work in teams (rather than me who is part of a team but…

Also our team has been working together for a while so can work from home without too much interruption. But its changing, we have some new guys on the team and no one wants to train them. People are trying out new things but coordination is a mess. Morale is bad but maybe that is just virus and economic related.

Re: Shopify Goes Digital by Default

#102

Post by cryptoz » Thu, May 21, 2020, 4:36 PM UTC

Grimm1 wrote: post #91

cryptoz wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is any of this forced? I can't read the article (paywall) but it sounds like work-from-home at Shopify will be optional right? The employer is 'letting' it happen, not forcing it, correct? Why would this make so many people so angry that they would leave? Or am I misunderstanding?

No they said the office is dead, full remote

It sounds to me like the office is simply closed for remodelling and cleaning and will reopen at partial capacity in a few months. This is the vibe I get from the intro, can't read the whole article (paywall)

Re: Shopify Goes Digital by Default

#103

Post by booleandilemma » Thu, May 21, 2020, 4:37 PM UTC

newfeatureok wrote: post #90

Remote-first is the future. I'm not sure why anyone would be against it. No one is forcing you to work from home. From a compliance and operations perspective a remote-first company is effectively forced to do a lot of things many companies do not or will not undertake: - Make meetings accessible to everyone - Communicate more effectively and transparently internal to the organization (and even externally, for the ad…

I live in a tiny, crappy, pre-war apartment that gets cold in the wintertime, next to loud, obnoxious neighbors, and I prefer working at my company’s spacious, modern Manhattan office.

Re: Shopify Goes Digital by Default

#104

Post by [deleted] » Thu, May 21, 2020, 4:37 PM UTC

tachyonbeam wrote: post #35

godzillabrennus wrote: post #26

Anyone else think these companies will pull a Yahoo and undo this policy after the pandemic?

It's possible. Lots of people don't like working remotely. They might lose a lot of valuable employees. I suppose over time they might also attract people who prefer working from home exclusively, but they would be losing many older employees with valuable knowledge. One way or another, there's going to be some kind of pushback. Many people threatening to quit, many actually quitting. The cynical part of me thinks th…

[deleted]

Re: Shopify Goes Digital by Default

#105

Post by tachyonbeam » Thu, May 21, 2020, 4:37 PM UTC

cryptoz wrote: post #65

tachyonbeam wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think of it as a benefit... It kind of sounds like WFH is going to be mandatory from now on?

Where did you read that this is mandatory? It sounds optional to me from the opening sentence of the article.

https://twitter.com/tobi/status/1263483496087064579

Re: Shopify Goes Digital by Default

#106

Post by MattGaiser » Thu, May 21, 2020, 4:37 PM UTC

alexbanks wrote: post #74

MattGaiser wrote: post #62

I am curious about the sustainability of work from home for truly team-based work. I get to develop features independently, so if I am given the spec, I have no need to speak to anyone for the rest of the day except for a couple messages with QA. For me, it is great. But I am essentially a microservice with defined inputs and outputs. For the people who actually work in teams (rather than me who is part of a team but…

The things you're describing don't go away with a remote team. It's not like going remote means all your employees just never talk to eachother in favor of working independently. It just means you use technology to solve in-person problems rather than being in person. I would argue it's no more miserable, in fact far less, than having to A.) Commute, B.) Sit in a conference room instead of my own home, C.) Let people…

> Let people walk over to my desk whenever they want and interrupt me.

If you are the kind of person to think that way and spend most of your time working at your desk, your work is probably relatively independent.

I am thinking about communications people who normally spend most of the day in a boardroom or developers who also have a hand in requirement analysis.

Re: Shopify Goes Digital by Default

#107

Post by adamnemecek » Thu, May 21, 2020, 4:38 PM UTC

dmode wrote: post #77

People have commented the impact of this shift on SF/NYC etc, but based on this announcement the impact on smaller tech hubs will be even more devastating. Why would you now open a office in a smaller tech hub when you can hire someone from anywhere ? The impact of this in Canada can be huge

Maybe but it will boost tech community in villages.

Re: Shopify Goes Digital by Default

#108

Post by alexbanks » Thu, May 21, 2020, 4:38 PM UTC

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #92

alexbanks wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The things you're describing don't go away with a remote team. It's not like going remote means all your employees just never talk to eachother in favor of working independently. It just means you use technology to solve in-person problems rather than being in person. I would argue it's no more miserable, in fact far less, than having to A.) Commute, B.) Sit in a conference room instead of my own home, C.) Let people…

But your description of (C) reflects a presumption of what I would call working independently. In many work cultures, and on many kinds of projects, that freedom is important and mostly unavailable in a culture where people have to stop to put on pants and hop on a call.

I'm confused by your wording. Are you saying that working independently is important but also unavailable because you're working from home? How?

Re: Shopify Goes Digital by Default

#109

Post by lbotos » Thu, May 21, 2020, 4:38 PM UTC

MattGaiser wrote: post #62

I am curious about the sustainability of work from home for truly team-based work. I get to develop features independently, so if I am given the spec, I have no need to speak to anyone for the rest of the day except for a couple messages with QA. For me, it is great. But I am essentially a microservice with defined inputs and outputs. For the people who actually work in teams (rather than me who is part of a team but…

> For the people who actually work in teams (rather than me who is part of a team but works independently), this seems to be a miserable experience.

I work in a Support Engineering group, where we often need to collaboratively debug. Remote forces us to clarify our thinking (you get better over time at writing your thoughts that way) and video calls work solidly well for most of the world. We have new hires that have come in and have said "people are surprised I work here remotely, because I like to talk to people but actually I talk to people ALL DAY."

The style changes a bit due to the technology, but you can choose the fidelity as needed. It's not for everyone, and sometimes remote slows things down, but even then, you get ruthless at prioritizing, because sync time becomes valuable.

Re: Shopify Goes Digital by Default

#110

Post by fourmyle » Thu, May 21, 2020, 4:39 PM UTC

kylestlb wrote: post #73

clivestaples wrote: post #27

Sometimes I wonder how long "permanent" will be for these decisions. Off topic, but if the permanent work-from-home trend continues, I cannot imagine what is going to happen to commercial real estate. Convert to residential? Is this equilibrium needed for overheated housing markets?

I have been crowing about this for years now. WFH by default could easily relieve pressure from the housing market at least in places where there are lots of people who have a job where they can WFH. I would absolutely live 2 hours from an office if I only had to go in once every week or two. I'd live further if it was once a month.

Gonna be great when you get a pay cut according to your new housing costs.