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Teensy 4.1 Development Board

pjrc.com

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Re: Teensy 4.1 Development Board

#101

Post by comboy »

realharo wrote: post #100
comboy wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder what's your use case for RTOS? I don't really know any problems that couldn't be solved with micros communicating with linux. Seems like even SpaceX gets away with it. I mean there seem to be the market so clearly there are some people who need it, I just would like to learn more about where is it really needed.

Stuff powered from a coin cell battery?

From coin cell battery you can power a microcontroller that is sleeping most of the time, not a real-time operating system.

Re: Teensy 4.1 Development Board

#102

Post by angst_ridden »

detaro wrote: post #39
simias wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the main selling point of Arduino is the "batteries included" approach if you're not familiar with embedded programing. Personally I never use Arduino because of the weird header spacing (I get it's sort of a trademark at this point but it's just annoying to work with). If you don't care about premade environments then yeah, it's mainly about which pins and embedded peripheral the board supports. Pin count is…

Teensy has a great library ecosystem too, so it can be a serious contender regarding "batteries included"

Agreed, plus a very responsive and helpful developer.

Re: Teensy 4.1 Development Board

#103

Post by cactus2093 »

ohazi wrote: post #82

PSA: Networking on microcontrollers is a giant pain in the ass. Don't get me wrong, boards like this (and ESP/Realtek boards with WiFi) are great for hacky prototypes. But if you're building an embedded device that will be deployed in any sort of volume, a small application processor running Linux will make your life dramatically easier. You can keep it asleep most of the time if your power budget is tight. The hard…

On a similar note, does anyone know of good resources for beginners for prototyping all the way through small-scale manufacturing of an embedded device?

As a web & backend developer who likes to tinker with Arduino/Teensy style projects, I've always been curious what all would be involved in actually getting some units manufactured, like for a small kickstarter run or something. It seems pretty doable these days to get pcb boards printed and even assembled once you have a final design. What I haven't been able to find much of, is advice along the lines of going from a prototype board like an Arduino or Teensy system, to a productionalized system in terms of both the software and hardware - what platform is easiest to build on (like this advice to use a Linux-based system if you need any networking), how to hook up a bootloader, how to build a system that allows users to update firmware for future bugfixes or features, etc. plus I'm sure there are a million other unknown unknowns I would never even think of.

Re: Teensy 4.1 Development Board

#104

Post by fermienrico »

funkaster wrote: post #55
fermienrico wrote: post #45

I wish Teensy was open source, it is not. It is amazingly well engineered including the bootloader, just that it's all closed source.

huh? the only thing closed is the bootloader, which is ok-ish I think. Everything else in the toolchain is open source. Paul is a terrific guy and provides great support in the forums. You can find the schematics, gerber files, etc in the webpage as well. What part would you like to be open source specifically?

I think releasing the source code and open-source are 2 different things. Paul is an amazing guy, I absolutely cannot argue - he is super cool.

Open-source means I have the license to use it in ways that are defined in an agreement outlined in the specific open source license (say MIT license). Paul provides a bunch of stuff for their users, but I cannot copy his designs and bootloader (which is closed) in a commercial project without taking on liability.

The problem is a philosophical one as well - Half-open or "visible source" projects exploit benefits of the open-source community (engagement, contributions, feedback, etc.) without giving anything back to the community (license to reproduce freely). I have a problem with this. Either make something completely closed source (totally fine) or make it completely open source. Another example is Numworks calculator ("visible source" under CC license, wtf is wrong with these people) : https://github.com/numworks/epsilon/issues/38

The Numworks guys are just getting free labor which is all the enthusiasts working on the code without paying anything back to the community! Completely abhorrent behavior and should be exposed.

Re: Teensy 4.1 Development Board

#105

Post by angst_ridden »

The Teensy line is great for folks like me, who are doing one-off projects and who know more about software than hardware. There are good libraries, a helpful developer, and a supportive community. I've used Teensies to make millisecond-accurate camera controllers, radar-triggered music/light-show devices, and burning-man style LED hats. If I were doing production, they'd probably be overkill (and too expensive), but they save me time and effort and are easy to use.

Re: Teensy 4.1 Development Board

#106

Post by looperhacks »

cactus2093 wrote: post #103
ohazi wrote: post #82

PSA: Networking on microcontrollers is a giant pain in the ass. Don't get me wrong, boards like this (and ESP/Realtek boards with WiFi) are great for hacky prototypes. But if you're building an embedded device that will be deployed in any sort of volume, a small application processor running Linux will make your life dramatically easier. You can keep it asleep most of the time if your power budget is tight. The hard…

On a similar note, does anyone know of good resources for beginners for prototyping all the way through small-scale manufacturing of an embedded device? As a web & backend developer who likes to tinker with Arduino/Teensy style projects, I've always been curious what all would be involved in actually getting some units manufactured, like for a small kickstarter run or something. It seems pretty doable these days to g…

Lately I've been prototyping a small board with my goal of maybe 10 units built. For me, the process is literally putting it together on a breadboard to check if it works, then design a PCB and send it to a Chinese manufacturer. Repeat if your PCB design is faulty. (Do double check your design though, you don't want to pay for new boards and shipping every other week)

Re: Teensy 4.1 Development Board

#107

Post by dekhn »

comboy wrote: post #101
realharo wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stuff powered from a coin cell battery?

From coin cell battery you can power a microcontroller that is sleeping most of the time, not a real-time operating system.

You can do exactly this with an ESP32. It's got an RTOS (FreeRTOS) which will spend most of its time sleeping https://learn.circuit.rocks/esp32-deep-sleep

Re: Teensy 4.1 Development Board

#108

Post by fermienrico »

detaro wrote: post #50
fermienrico wrote: post #45

I wish Teensy was open source, it is not. It is amazingly well engineered including the bootloader, just that it's all closed source.

Isn't the bootloader chip the only not-open thing?

Do I get a license for hardware schematics and board layout and other aspects besides the bootloader? Where can I find a license in writing? If a license is not provided, I can't do anything with it besides hobby work.

Here is the schematic page but no mention of a license: https://www.pjrc.com/teensy/schematic.html

This is NOT open-source. It is visible-source.

Please note, I am not demanding an open-source license. Closed source projects are totally fine, I feel absolutely no entitlement to get stuff for free. I am just pointing out projects that are closed-source but disguised as open-source, thereby taking advantage of the hobbyist community. Paul may be a cool guy, but objectively that doesn't change anything.

Re: Teensy 4.1 Development Board

#109

Post by ChrisGammell »

cactus2093 wrote: post #103
ohazi wrote: post #82

PSA: Networking on microcontrollers is a giant pain in the ass. Don't get me wrong, boards like this (and ESP/Realtek boards with WiFi) are great for hacky prototypes. But if you're building an embedded device that will be deployed in any sort of volume, a small application processor running Linux will make your life dramatically easier. You can keep it asleep most of the time if your power budget is tight. The hard…

On a similar note, does anyone know of good resources for beginners for prototyping all the way through small-scale manufacturing of an embedded device? As a web & backend developer who likes to tinker with Arduino/Teensy style projects, I've always been curious what all would be involved in actually getting some units manufactured, like for a small kickstarter run or something. It seems pretty doable these days to g…

I made a video course for getting up and running with KiCad, the open source electronics CAD program: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLy2022BX6EspFAKBCgRuE...

If you're looking at broader focus on building hardware, Contextual Electronics helps to fill out some of the other elements you're looking to do. As luck would have it, I just started a new course today (no joke) where I'm showing how I'm designing a Raspberry Pi HAT with cellular and Bluetooth capabilities, which I'll be selling and using as a reference design for my hardware design consulting business.

Re: Teensy 4.1 Development Board

#110

Post by fermienrico »

dvdbloc wrote: post #51
detaro wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't the bootloader chip the only not-open thing?

The ARM Cortex-M7 architecture is not open, not sure if that’s what the OP was referring to. RISC-V would be an example of an open architecture.

That's true, at some point in the abstraction layers from Teensy to the silicon atoms, the concept of "open-source" disintegrates. But to clarify, I am mainly concerned with the top layer - gerber files, schematics, bootloader, etc.
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