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Are "teens" born or made? An interesting twist.

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Re: Are "teens" born or made? An interesting twist.

#101

Post by kenjackson »

ahoyhere wrote: post #100
kenjackson wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO the only reason that upper middle class kids today -- who are the ones always studied -- don't develop the part of the brain that connects cause & effect, & prevents risk-taking, is because they are never allowed to have enough power to fuck up. This simply isn't consistent with those people who are given a lot of responsibility. Like those who leave home at 12 or so and go into the world on their own. You'd thin…

Straw man argument. I never said "stop supervising kids at 10 years old" or "12 year olds should leave home." Neither did I say that kids from impoverished homes fare better on cognitive tests. Ludicrous.

Not a strawman. But these are some of the few examples where teens effectively go into the adult world (in many cases acting as adults). And kids from impoverished homes often have to run the house. There aren't many controls. so I took some of the few that exist, as imperfect as they are.

The thing that is hard to reconcile is that the people who seem to be most lauded as successful have had the most supervised childhoods. Folks like Gates, Jobs, Obama, Clinton, etc... What they do share in common is that they break from the mold at about the cusp of traditional adulthood (around 18-21) -- not at age 13.

Re: Are "teens" born or made? An interesting twist.

#102

Post by ema »

kenjackson wrote: post #97
ahoyhere wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is unnatural that kids are segregated by age into "peer groups" - in school and outside school (like at lessons). What's evolutionarily normal is to have children who are surrounded by, and interact mostly, with adults, in a group where many of the people are your family. The adults bring you up to their level. The kids keep you at your current (their) level. No wonder kids today are more and more emotionally & in…

IMO the only reason that upper middle class kids today -- who are the ones always studied -- don't develop the part of the brain that connects cause & effect, & prevents risk-taking, is because they are never allowed to have enough power to fuck up. This simply isn't consistent with those people who are given a lot of responsibility. Like those who leave home at 12 or so and go into the world on their own. You'd thin…

There is an difference between taking responsebility for your own life and be left alone by your parents. I'm currently 18 i didn't ever wanted to behave like an typical immature teenager. I think part of the reason is that my parents didn't disallow me anything. so they weren't my opponent, but a role model.

Re: Are "teens" born or made? An interesting twist.

#103

Post by yters »

apl wrote: post #68
yters wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd get rid of school. Teach kids writing, arithmetic and show them the internet. What do they need from teachers? I'd be hard pressed to name ONE class that was worth my time to attend.

99% of all kids would simply crash and burn.

Today's children, yes. Which is why we need to get started ASAP. I fear for the future of civilization...

Re: Are "teens" born or made? An interesting twist.

#104

Post by yters »

hasenj wrote: post #72
yters wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd get rid of school. Teach kids writing, arithmetic and show them the internet. What do they need from teachers? I'd be hard pressed to name ONE class that was worth my time to attend.

OK, some people say they didn't learn much from college classes, and therefore university was worthless (or wasn't worth the money). I disagree. University puts you in an environment that encourages learning and inquisition. You could argue that you learned alot more from wikipedia than classes, but if it weren't for university, would you even bother reading wikipedia?

I can guarantee you that for the vast majority of my classes it would have been better if I'd gone off and studied on my own, which I do. I also hardly ever learn anything from my classmates, except one or two friends.

Re: Are "teens" born or made? An interesting twist.

#105

Post by ahoyhere »

kenjackson wrote: post #101
ahoyhere wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Straw man argument. I never said "stop supervising kids at 10 years old" or "12 year olds should leave home." Neither did I say that kids from impoverished homes fare better on cognitive tests. Ludicrous.

Not a strawman. But these are some of the few examples where teens effectively go into the adult world (in many cases acting as adults). And kids from impoverished homes often have to run the house. There aren't many controls. so I took some of the few that exist, as imperfect as they are. The thing that is hard to reconcile is that the people who seem to be most lauded as successful have had the most supervised chil…

Of course it's a straw man argument. Again, I never said that the solution was to force children to fend for themselves from 12 years old, or your latest number, 13.

What I said was: "What's evolutionarily normal is to have children who are surrounded by, and interact mostly, with adults, in a group where many of the people are your family. The adults bring you up to their level."

And "How can you learn that stupidity leads to crisis if you're never allowed to make your own decisions?"

Children from impoverished backgrounds in the United States are raised, such as it is, with incredible differences compared to children of well-off parents. They have a "30 million word gap" in terms of words spoken to them. They are not asked questions that cause them to think. They do not receive adequate nutrition.

You can't compare a poor child whose parents ignored him with a middle class child whose parents let him make his own decisions, like whether or not to do his homework, go to bed at a reasonable hour, earn and spend his own money, pay for some of his own bills, prepare his own lunches & do his own laundry, make dinner for the rest of the family, clean his room or not, work at a meaningful apprenticeship, date who he wanted when he felt ready to date, get piercings or dye hair, wear what he wants, etc.

In short: you are a troll. I hope you are joking but if you don't realize that you are a troll, you seriously need to deepen your thinking on subjects because you're just flapping about on the surface of a topic but you think you're making waves.

Re: Are "teens" born or made? An interesting twist.

#106

Post by kenjackson »

ahoyhere wrote: post #105
kenjackson wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a strawman. But these are some of the few examples where teens effectively go into the adult world (in many cases acting as adults). And kids from impoverished homes often have to run the house. There aren't many controls. so I took some of the few that exist, as imperfect as they are. The thing that is hard to reconcile is that the people who seem to be most lauded as successful have had the most supervised chil…

Of course it's a straw man argument. Again, I never said that the solution was to force children to fend for themselves from 12 years old, or your latest number, 13. What I said was: "What's evolutionarily normal is to have children who are surrounded by, and interact mostly, with adults, in a group where many of the people are your family. The adults bring you up to their level." And "How can you learn that stupidit…

In short: you are a troll. I hope you are joking but if you don't realize that you are a troll, you seriously need to deepen your thinking on subjects because you're just flapping about on the surface of a topic but you think you're making waves.

Thanks. I needed a tldr on that one. What you say may all be true. Hard for me to know because my brain hasn't fully formed since I wasn't allowed to do crack rocks and rob liquor stores in the evening with my friends.

In any case you can raise your children to be effectively parentless. That's your choice. Charlie Sheen gets paid better than most.

Re: Are "teens" born or made? An interesting twist.

#107

Post by teyc »

yters wrote: post #66
teyc wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Formal education is probably the culprit here. It segments young adults into age groups, and then limits the entire days interaction to the same lot of children. You can't define people simply by what year they are born in. Some family environments provide children with an outlet where they end up with a very mature outlook, others don't. The problem with this stratification is that it soon becomes the "norm" for chi…

I blame child labor laws. Since children below a certain age are unemployable adults lock them away in school where they can't cause trouble and learn to do what they're told.

Have you seen the photos of kdis making bricks in the third world? These children are going to have just as much problems relating to adults.

The real matter is because there is no regular "place" where teens are welcome. Not in the office, nor in a workshop. They end up being with other "lost" teens.

Re: Are "teens" born or made? An interesting twist.

#108

Post by teyc »

ahoyhere wrote: post #86
Andrew_Quentin wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is your experience. Hardly the problem we all have. Do you not have uncles, did they not come for dinner, what of aunties, and did you never go to your friends house where you would meet their parents, etc. I do not think anyone isolates kids or teenagers. I think, instead, the media attempts to portray such a picture so as to sell more papers. Regarding your latter comment, in a world where you do not mix even…

It is unnatural that kids are segregated by age into "peer groups" - in school and outside school (like at lessons). What's evolutionarily normal is to have children who are surrounded by, and interact mostly, with adults, in a group where many of the people are your family. The adults bring you up to their level. The kids keep you at your current (their) level. No wonder kids today are more and more emotionally & in…

Well said. By defining teens, we have also inadvertently defined who they are not.

_How can you learn that stupidity leads to crisis if you're never allowed to make your own decisions?_

I don't agree with this. The whole thing about mixing with adults is the adults will tell the kids to avoid repeating the mistakes they made when they were young. The whole idea of "rebels without a cause" is based on the understanding that if they knew and internalized the knowledge, teens would be much more careful. By not taking teens into the adult tribe, the teens end up having to create their own tribes and culture.

Re: Are "teens" born or made? An interesting twist.

#109

Post by hasenj »

rthomas6 wrote: post #82
hasenj wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think most cultures consider their elders to have much much more wisdom than regular men.

Forty years old is an elder?

Not that per se, but wisdom increases with experience and age is a big factor in having experience. A 50 year old person is likely to have experienced much more than a 30 year old. So it's natural that you will find 16 year olds lacking in experience compared to say 28 year olds.

Re: Are "teens" born or made? An interesting twist.

#110

Post by follower »

ajju wrote: post #80
follower wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Ditto for when Mrs. Smith thinks she was triple charged by The Googles [...] I should have made that more clear for someone who might only buy one thing online ever. An intriguing observation, how did you solve the problem?

Presumably by reassuring the customer, in bold font, on the confirmation page and in the email from him, both of which he controls, that they have only been charged once.

My understanding is that people don't read--so I would actually be surprised if that was @patio11's solution. :)
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