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An average family in Tokyo can own a new house for $850/month

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Re: An average family in Tokyo can own a new house for $850/month

#101

Post by E14n »

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #4

> The first thing to note is that in Japan, housing isn’t an investment. It’s a place to live. The country’s slow population growth means that increases in property values aren’t guaranteed I feel like this is a misleading way to put it. Japanese houses decrease in value, generally quite severely - the conventional wisdom is that after a few decades you might as well just tear it down and build a new one. So there's…

You are loosing the investment potential of the building on your property. There is nothing to stop you buying an old house (that is essentially valued at nothing) on a property and living in it. That will essentially maintain the equity you put in.

Re: An average family in Tokyo can own a new house for $850/month

#102

Post by PappaPatat »

E14n wrote: post #84
codesuki wrote: post #9

I think this headline is misleading in 2 ways. 1. yes you might get a house at this price but it's either 1-2 hours out of the city center (which is fine, just saying Tokyo is large.) Or alternatively it's in bad neighborhoods. (bad is relative if you are from the US) 2. your house will most likely look like this: https://www.ii-ie2.net/dat/5ba1164d.jpg Sayonara sunlight, hello neighbor. here are listings: https://ww…

The big issues that consistently affects real-estate around Tokyo is proximity to a station and the age of the building. The basic rule is that a condominium must be within 10 minutes walk from a station, and a free standing house up to 15 minutes walk. A house around 30 years old is worthless, and a house younger will be some fraction of its original purchase price. There are exceptions but this is a pretty good rul…

> A house around 30 years old is worthless

Living in a city which city center was (re-) build between the 16th and 17th century, the 30 years till worthless puzzles me.

Even the house I live in is over 100 years old and in excellent condition.

Why do houses loose their value so rapidly in Tokyo?

Re: An average family in Tokyo can own a new house for $850/month

#103

Post by creamyhorror »

jessriedel wrote: post #89
wenc wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well I guess that’s true from a North American perspective. I’ve lived in several countries, and from my perspective, in Asia and much of Europe, that structure seems like it would be considered a passable family home in an urban area. Most urban folks have a different relationship with space — smaller spaces are ok if one is close to transit and city amenities.

But the whole point of the headline is to try and convince the reader that Tokyo housing prices are low relative to the reader's expectation. If the small housing price example is congruent with the size of the example house, there's no story.

I'd contend it's fair to adjust for the country's typical expectations. Just like you couldn't simply expect the same size of house in Hong Kong as you might in Europe.

Re: An average family in Tokyo can own a new house for $850/month

#104

Post by distantaidenn »

jessriedel wrote: post #83
wenc wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 2. your house will most likely look like this Not sure what's wrong with that? That looks pretty amazing actually. I live in a unit that looks similar to that near downtown Chicago. My unit is north facing, and even so, there's more than enough sunlight.

The title says "house" for a "family", and the pictured structure is not normally what people think when they hear that, being significantly smaller than even a typical townhouse. In particular, a "house" suggests something larger than a small apartment. Obviously there's nothing wrong with an apartment or microhouse, but it makes the quoted rent less impressive.

Not normal for who? Because in Tokyo, the house in the pic is quite normal. If I look just from my rooftop, I can probably count 20 houses of a similar design.

Also, keep in mind the height of the house. People tend to build up here rather than wide -- at least in family areas in central Tokyo. My current house, while slender is almost obscenely tall. It's four floors including the rooftop deck. In comparison, my childhood house back in midwestern America, seems much less spacious.

Re: An average family in Tokyo can own a new house for $850/month

#105

Post by creamyhorror »

PappaPatat wrote: post #102
E14n wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The big issues that consistently affects real-estate around Tokyo is proximity to a station and the age of the building. The basic rule is that a condominium must be within 10 minutes walk from a station, and a free standing house up to 15 minutes walk. A house around 30 years old is worthless, and a house younger will be some fraction of its original purchase price. There are exceptions but this is a pretty good rul…

> A house around 30 years old is worthless Living in a city which city center was (re-) build between the 16th and 17th century, the 30 years till worthless puzzles me. Even the house I live in is over 100 years old and in excellent condition. Why do houses loose their value so rapidly in Tokyo?

Because many of them were built cheaply to begin with and develop problems over the decades. They weren't built for long-term living, and in a sense it was the right move since Japan was developing rapidly up till the end of the '80s. (Well-built exceptions probably exist, of course.) And then there's increased earthquake/disaster risk with poorer construction.

It's something I wondered about too until I looked at descriptions and photos of >30-year-old houses on real estate sites.

Re: An average family in Tokyo can own a new house for $850/month

#106

Post by hackeraccount »

codesuki wrote: post #9

I think this headline is misleading in 2 ways. 1. yes you might get a house at this price but it's either 1-2 hours out of the city center (which is fine, just saying Tokyo is large.) Or alternatively it's in bad neighborhoods. (bad is relative if you are from the US) 2. your house will most likely look like this: https://www.ii-ie2.net/dat/5ba1164d.jpg Sayonara sunlight, hello neighbor. here are listings: https://ww…

It's got parking. It's detached. Sold.

Re: An average family in Tokyo can own a new house for $850/month

#107

Post by harimau777 »

arcticbull wrote: post #67
harimau777 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that not everyone's entitled to waterfront views, but I think that in a functioning society everyone would be able to own a decent house (e.g. one that gets sunlight), within a reasonable commute of their work, in desirable part of the country (e.g. in a cosmopolitan city). The difficulty that I see is that housing prices in America are so high that it's unrealistic for moth people to create enough value to p…

In what way is that any more realistic than everyone being entitled to waterfront? Ideally, that would be lovely, but I just don't see a path to that.

I don't know if it would be possible to provide to everyone in society who wants it, but a path towards at least making it more available might look like:

Invest in public transportation (and potentially restrict private transportation in city centers) so that we can expand how far out someone can live and still have a reasonable commute.

Where appropriate, allow people to work from home so that commute is less of an issue.

Build more and in some cases higher density affordable housing so that more people are able to live in desirable areas.

Invest in infrastructure (both practical infrastructure such as high speed internet and "aesthetic" infrastructure such as parks and public works of art) in order to make more places desirable.

Re: An average family in Tokyo can own a new house for $850/month

#108

Post by harimau777 »

matz1 wrote: post #71
harimau777 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that not everyone's entitled to waterfront views, but I think that in a functioning society everyone would be able to own a decent house (e.g. one that gets sunlight), within a reasonable commute of their work, in desirable part of the country (e.g. in a cosmopolitan city). The difficulty that I see is that housing prices in America are so high that it's unrealistic for moth people to create enough value to p…

Its debatable. Not everyone going to agree with your definition of decent.

I definitely agree, I just chose cosmopolitan cities because they are both one of the most commonly preferred places to live right now and one of the most expensive.

Re: An average family in Tokyo can own a new house for $850/month

#109

Post by E14n »

creamyhorror wrote: post #105
PappaPatat wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A house around 30 years old is worthless Living in a city which city center was (re-) build between the 16th and 17th century, the 30 years till worthless puzzles me. Even the house I live in is over 100 years old and in excellent condition. Why do houses loose their value so rapidly in Tokyo?

Because many of them were built cheaply to begin with and develop problems over the decades. They weren't built for long-term living, and in a sense it was the right move since Japan was developing rapidly up till the end of the '80s. (Well-built exceptions probably exist, of course.) And then there's increased earthquake/disaster risk with poorer construction. It's something I wondered about too until I looked at de…

I think that's more perception then reality. I live in a 30 year old house and it could easily last 100 years if properly maintained, but there is little incentive to improve the building because it will not improve the resale value.

Re: An average family in Tokyo can own a new house for $850/month

#110

Post by aidenn0 »

giraffecat wrote: post #66
aidenn0 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that new construction like in TFA? $300k for new construction is ludicrously cheap for most coastal California cities. I was told to budget $150-250k for permits when I considered buying land and building my own house in Santa Barbara. Both my current and my previous house would be illegal to build today because they are too large (even though both houses comfortably fit the frontage requirements, there is an addi…

Santa Barbara is a terrible place to consider for buying/building a house. Sky high property taxes and inflated property values are begging the local economy to dry out due to rental prices (The Bay is cheaper if you compare similar apartments with similar interior/exterior). The city can't expand because of geology, and it refuses to build up to preserve the "historical view of the Riviera". Sure it's a pretty city,…

Buying is way cheaper in Santa Barbara than the bay area like half to two-thirds depending on where you compare to. The only thing even close to Santa Barbara prices for sale when I checked a year ago were "unique" properties in East Palo Alto. Rents are pretty insane here though. It's a total flip from when I moved here (I was paying $50/month more in rent than a friend who got a job in the Indianapolis. I lived walking distance from downtown).
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