500K bet on rock paper scissors ruled invalid by Quebec court • Hacker News Board

Re: 500K bet on rock paper scissors ruled invalid by Quebec court

#101

Post by renewiltord » Sat, Apr 25, 2020, 5:05 PM UTC

michaelcampbell wrote: post #100

jameslk wrote: post #81

I'm interested in the backstory. How do two people decide to wager such amounts of money over rock paper scissors? Like were they bored or was there some serious reason such a casual game was chosen over a serious amount of money? Clearly the loser couldn't easily afford the amount they were wagering since he had to take out debt for it, which makes it even more confusing why this seemed like a prudent decision.

Because money has marginal value, and they seem to have lots of it.

That can't be it because he took out a mortgage on his house!

Re: 500K bet on rock paper scissors ruled invalid by Quebec court

#102

Post by tzs » Sat, Apr 25, 2020, 5:07 PM UTC

liamcardenas wrote: post #73

npo9 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My friends would try every angle to weasel their way out of a $100 light hearted bet! I mean, the guy went to court to weasel out of the bet.

Why is no one talking about the true jerk in this situation? The guy legally forcing the other to mortgage his house in order to give him $500k — because of rock, paper, scissors...

If he's a true jerk, he'll report the now cancelled debt to his country's equivalent of the IRS. If you owe money and some or all of that is cancelled, in many countries the amount cancelled might count as income to you for tax purposes.

I'd expect that in this case it would not be income, because it sounds like the court determined that the debt was not valid in the first place and so it is more of a "there was never a debt in the first place" than a "cancelled debt" situation, but being investigated to determine that would likely be annoying.

Re: 500K bet on rock paper scissors ruled invalid by Quebec court

#103

Post by elwell » Sat, Apr 25, 2020, 5:10 PM UTC

Larrikin wrote: post #87

frank2 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe she sensed that you would tend to be a better provider if you were a little more confident and let you win.

How do you let someone won a game of chance?

Forfeit.

Re: 500K bet on rock paper scissors ruled invalid by Quebec court

#104

Post by mydongle » Sat, Apr 25, 2020, 5:11 PM UTC

renewiltord wrote: post #101

michaelcampbell wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because money has marginal value, and they seem to have lots of it.

That can't be it because he took out a mortgage on his house!

He has a house to take a mortgage on.

Re: 500K bet on rock paper scissors ruled invalid by Quebec court

#105

Post by elwell » Sat, Apr 25, 2020, 5:14 PM UTC

hedora wrote: post #51

flyGuyOnTheSly wrote: post #26

>The court also upheld the lower court's conclusion that the $517,000 wager was excessive. Quebec courts are not arguing that Rock Paper Scissors is not a game of skill. They only ruled that the bet was "excessive" which is against the law. IANAL, but betting half a million dollars on three hand gestures qualifies as excessive imho. I am thoroughly impressed that the loser actually made good on their commitment thoug…

The court argues it is a game of skill but follows up with: > it seems evident … that the game also involves a large part of chance, so that it does not take 'only skill or bodily exertion on the part of the parties,' They would have invalidated the bet even if wasn’t “excessive”. Presumably, the law also bans wagers on gambling activities, such as poker.

Technically everything is a 'game of chance'. Even being an employee. Usually the odds are pretty high for getting your paycheck (~99.999% maybe).

Re: 500K bet on rock paper scissors ruled invalid by Quebec court

#106

Post by tinus_hn » Sat, Apr 25, 2020, 5:15 PM UTC

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #68

flyGuyOnTheSly wrote: post #26

>The court also upheld the lower court's conclusion that the $517,000 wager was excessive. Quebec courts are not arguing that Rock Paper Scissors is not a game of skill. They only ruled that the bet was "excessive" which is against the law. IANAL, but betting half a million dollars on three hand gestures qualifies as excessive imho. I am thoroughly impressed that the loser actually made good on their commitment thoug…

Jesus, you need new friends. "Weasel" is not a word you want to associate with people you should be able to trust.

It is possible to both have friends you would trust with your life and friends you wouldn’t.

Re: 500K bet on rock paper scissors ruled invalid by Quebec court

#107

Post by arbitrary_name » Sat, Apr 25, 2020, 5:16 PM UTC

jon_elbrook wrote: post #98

kingofpandora wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> >but betting half a million dollars on three hand gestures qualifies as excessive imho. > vegans think meat eating is excessive. let's ban meat eating, then? The only way your analogy would make any sense would be if there were a law on excessive eating.

there would be if some people had their way

There would also still be legal slavery and segregation if some people had their way. What's your point?

Re: 500K bet on rock paper scissors ruled invalid by Quebec court

#108

Post by elwell » Sat, Apr 25, 2020, 5:16 PM UTC

roenxi wrote: post #44

This article is so stupid I assume there is fraud involved somewhere; or at least a lot more to the story than mentioned.

You have to wonder if Rock, Paper, Scissors is a front for some other wager/deal they had to settle. E.g., a large bitcoin transaction, a drug deal, idk. Since they wanted it notarized, they had to change the face of it.

Re: 500K bet on rock paper scissors ruled invalid by Quebec court

#109

Post by ta1771 » Sat, Apr 25, 2020, 5:24 PM UTC

tinus_hn wrote: post #106

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jesus, you need new friends. "Weasel" is not a word you want to associate with people you should be able to trust.

It is possible to both have friends you would trust with your life and friends you wouldn’t.

The latter are acquaintances.

Re: 500K bet on rock paper scissors ruled invalid by Quebec court

#110

Post by danso » Sat, Apr 25, 2020, 5:25 PM UTC

flyGuyOnTheSly wrote: post #26

>The court also upheld the lower court's conclusion that the $517,000 wager was excessive. Quebec courts are not arguing that Rock Paper Scissors is not a game of skill. They only ruled that the bet was "excessive" which is against the law. IANAL, but betting half a million dollars on three hand gestures qualifies as excessive imho. I am thoroughly impressed that the loser actually made good on their commitment thoug…

Yeah, after the dust settles on the legal battle, I would love to hear the Canadian version of "This American Life" get the full backstory on this. Were these guys pals playing in the living room or at the bar, or was it between strangers at some kind of underground RPS parlor? The latter seems ridiculous, but so does the former, since I imagine it would involve the loser saying "C'mon man you can't be serious?" for weeks, at least.

I couldn't find more indepth coverage in the recent news, but here's a relatively lengthy article from 2017 (before the recently ruled-on appeal):

https://www.fasken.com/en/knowledge/2017/12/can-you-legally-...

It doesn't go into the personal details (or link to the source court documents), but it does say that the men (both "experienced businessmen", which I assume means: "guys with expendable wealth") signed the notarized contract after the game:

> After the match, the winner had the loser sign a notarized recognition of debt contract that was secured by a hypothec (mortgage) over the loser’s house. The winner subsequently attempted to enforce the gambling debt and hypothec, leading to litigation.

I'm intrigued why the loser signed the notarized contract at all if he was planning to fight it in court.