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Our data centers now work harder when the sun shines and wind blows

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Re: Our data centers now work harder when the sun shines and wind blows

#101
post #54

(Off-topic, but regarding this site) Am I crazy or is this website capturing down-button clicks and ignoring them? I typically use down and up to slowly scroll as I read an article. This page is driving me nuts.

Yes, down-arrow key is disabled. I'd thought it was just me and some badly behaving extension!

Surprised to see that get through QA. (Up arrow works just fine.)

Re: Our data centers now work harder when the sun shines and wind blows

#102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Imagine when your fridge can do this I've been posting for years that an effective grid "battery" is internet connected refrigerators, water heaters, A/C, car chargers, etc., that only run when power is cheap, i.e. when solar/wind is providing excess power. A great deal of our demand for electricity is elastic and shiftable, which will eliminate a huge chunk of the need for grid batteries. Glad to see this finally…

This will only work with fine-grained energy pricing (on the scale of minutes) and smart meters. Does this exist anywhere in the world?

Octopus energy in the UK with the beta agile tariff is based on 30 minute pricing and prices have been so low at times such as yesterday that the price per unit has been negative, for example on Sunday and Monday I was paid 4.2 pence per unit to take electricity off the network.

Re: Our data centers now work harder when the sun shines and wind blows

#103
post #90

This is a really good argument for carbon taxation to appropriately increase the cost of dirty energy. Send the correct price signal everywhere rather than making your own software do the equivalent of looking out the window at the weather and trying to decide if it’s a sunny or rainy or windy or clam day, and thus if solar or wind generation is making the grid cleaner. Or if instead those are likely offline and the…

Exactly. It then also starts to make local storage (like powerwall) more interesting. When your PV generates a lot, prices will go down so better store the excess for times with higher prices. And when you don't generate PV power but can still store, you buy cheap also to use when prices go up.

If there is also a dynamic price for using the grid, that usage will also spread.

Re: Our data centers now work harder when the sun shines and wind blows

#104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Carbon consumed in building a server is sunk cost and would be paid independent of whether the server does any kind of carbon-footprint-aware load shifting. Assuming the server is "sitting unused for 23 hours a day" is the wrong model for what this work changed. You're assuming the server could be running at 50% duty cycle vs. 100% duty cyle. It isn't; since we're talking the batch load, there's a roughly fixed amoun…

Doesn’t not buying servers create pressure to not build them in the first place?

I shouldn't have used "sunk cost;" I should have said "fixed cost."

Google builds datacenters to N-year-long plans that are expensive to modify. Whether they're running their batch jobs on solar energy or coal energy, the carbon footprint of the datacenter build plan is not going to change. They want those datacenters anyway (mostly for the non-batch work and whatever the next big thing is that hasn't been invented yet but can only be done by putting a beach's worth of thinking sand on the problem).

Re: Our data centers now work harder when the sun shines and wind blows

#105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Imagine when your fridge can do this I've been posting for years that an effective grid "battery" is internet connected refrigerators, water heaters, A/C, car chargers, etc., that only run when power is cheap, i.e. when solar/wind is providing excess power. A great deal of our demand for electricity is elastic and shiftable, which will eliminate a huge chunk of the need for grid batteries. Glad to see this finally…

This will only work with fine-grained energy pricing (on the scale of minutes) and smart meters. Does this exist anywhere in the world?

Griddy in Texas is a wholesale energy provider for consumers that passes on the fees set by the Texas grid regulatory agency every 5 minutes.

Re: Our data centers now work harder when the sun shines and wind blows

#106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Imagine when your fridge can do this I've been posting for years that an effective grid "battery" is internet connected refrigerators, water heaters, A/C, car chargers, etc., that only run when power is cheap, i.e. when solar/wind is providing excess power. A great deal of our demand for electricity is elastic and shiftable, which will eliminate a huge chunk of the need for grid batteries. Glad to see this finally…

This will only work with fine-grained energy pricing (on the scale of minutes) and smart meters. Does this exist anywhere in the world?

Since solar energy doesn't happen after sunset, the idea can still work even just assuming power is cheaper during daylight.

Re: Our data centers now work harder when the sun shines and wind blows

#108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This will only work with fine-grained energy pricing (on the scale of minutes) and smart meters. Does this exist anywhere in the world?

It works well if you can aggregate the distributed resources so they're large enough to bid at the wholesale level.

one could imagine a company that gives fridges out for FREE and sells the aggregated “balancing energy” to recoup the cost of the fridge.

Re: Our data centers now work harder when the sun shines and wind blows

#109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Imagine when your fridge can do this I've been posting for years that an effective grid "battery" is internet connected refrigerators, water heaters, A/C, car chargers, etc., that only run when power is cheap, i.e. when solar/wind is providing excess power. A great deal of our demand for electricity is elastic and shiftable, which will eliminate a huge chunk of the need for grid batteries. Glad to see this finally…

This will only work with fine-grained energy pricing (on the scale of minutes) and smart meters. Does this exist anywhere in the world?

Providers are starting to pop up in Australia that support this, and people have been quick to start hacking: https://twitter.com/_______kim/status/1226606021558194176

Re: Our data centers now work harder when the sun shines and wind blows

#110
post #29

Optimizing for this is a perfect task to throw at a simple market. Especially because actually reworking the software to take advantage of resources at different times is often going to require a decent amount of work by engineers. One way to do it would be assign various jobs a value, (which could be dynamic e.g. it might get more important as information becomes stale) and have them bid on compute power. You could…

Tangentially related but in Australia we run a household utility company that operates of that same assumption: https://www.amberelectric.com.au/

Our hypothesis is that market signals combined with the right tools (friendly app and home automation) can help households shift demand into less carbon intensive periods.

So far it's working pretty well.

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