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Stripe refunds: fees from the original charge are not returned

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Re: Stripe refunds: fees from the original charge are not returned

#101

Post by pc »

tomc1985 wrote: post #100
pc wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(I'm one of Stripe's cofounders.) Thanks for the candid feedback. A few quick thoughts -- - This is not a new policy change -- it's been our pricing for all new users since 2017. (The news is that we're now applying this pricing to Stripe's older users, in part as a response to some price increases that the card networks are making.) - Our policy on refunds is pretty much the same as Braintree's. - We've added a lot…

> we built an ML engine to automatically optimize the bitfields of card network requests. Uh, what?

Card network requests are comprised of fairly complex ISO 8583 messages. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_8583.) We now have enough data across Stripe to implement an ML engine to optimize these requests on a per-issuing bank basis. As mentioned in original comment, this helps collect a lot more "free" revenue for our users.

Re: Stripe refunds: fees from the original charge are not returned

#102

Post by koolba »

tomnipotent wrote: post #67
koolba wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that even possible? I though debit cards entered using purely digits (vs pin) have to be run through the credit card network. Is there a provider who provides debit card online processing?

In the U.S., fees on debit cards are limited based on the Durbin Amendment. There is a different fee between PIN and signature debit, but not so much that signature debit matches credit cards. https://www.valuepenguin.com/credit-card-processing/intercha...

I know the fees are lower. I’m asking if it’s possible to submit a transaction via an online API as a debit rather than credit.

Re: Stripe refunds: fees from the original charge are not returned

#103

Post by phonon »

tomc1985 wrote: post #100
pc wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(I'm one of Stripe's cofounders.) Thanks for the candid feedback. A few quick thoughts -- - This is not a new policy change -- it's been our pricing for all new users since 2017. (The news is that we're now applying this pricing to Stripe's older users, in part as a response to some price increases that the card networks are making.) - Our policy on refunds is pretty much the same as Braintree's. - We've added a lot…

> we built an ML engine to automatically optimize the bitfields of card network requests. Uh, what?

https://twitter.com/adropboxspace/status/1188895270152466432

Re: Stripe refunds: fees from the original charge are not returned

#104

Post by [deleted] »

pc wrote: post #83
ValentineC wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Our policy on refunds is pretty much the same as Braintree's. I'm seeing something different on (my local) Braintree site [1][2]: > All processing fees, except the per transaction fee, are returned for full refunds. For partial refunds, all processing fees are returned at a prorated amount, but the transaction fee is not returned. [1] https://www.braintreepayments.com/sg/braintree-pricing [2] Looks like the US one…

Yes, per [2], our US refund policies are roughly the same.

[deleted]

Re: Stripe refunds: fees from the original charge are not returned

#105

Post by dmlittle »

pc wrote: post #101
tomc1985 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we built an ML engine to automatically optimize the bitfields of card network requests. Uh, what?

Card network requests are comprised of fairly complex ISO 8583 messages. ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_8583. ) We now have enough data across Stripe to implement an ML engine to optimize these requests on a per-issuing bank basis. As mentioned in original comment, this helps collect a lot more "free" revenue for our users.

For the curious here's the link without the period at the end for convenience https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_8583

Re: Stripe refunds: fees from the original charge are not returned

#107

Post by EpicEng »

StavrosK wrote: post #92
totalZero wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I may make a sincere criticism, as a person who knows nothing about either side of this conversation.... We should all delete "I'm sorry you feel that way" from our mental phrasebooks. It is a phrase that always falls flat, comes across as potentially sarcastic, and is the textbook definition of a non-apology apology. If you want to clarify something, go for it. If you don't want to apologize, don't feel obligated…

Agreed, that phrase strikes me as without intrinsic meaning (though I can't say I ever grasped the meaning of "sorry" in the non-apology sense). It always seems to me like the person wants to say something that appears comforting without actually meaning anything, and seems disingenuous.

>It always seems to me like the person wants to say something that appears comforting without actually meaning anything, and seems disingenuous. reply

And most importantly, without admitting fault.

Re: Stripe refunds: fees from the original charge are not returned

#109

Post by jariel »

crazygringo wrote: post #13
sergiotapia wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are payments costing more? Isn't technology lowering costs more and more for these companies? Is this just execs needing another summer home so they raise the prices to whatever they like?

I'm wondering if it has something to do with the increasing prevalence of rewards, which is driven by competition between issuers? I mean, I get somewhere between 2% and 5% back on virtually everything I buy. On top of signup bonuses. Whereas when I think back to 10 or 15 years ago, it seems like I usually got 1% back, and I still had cards that didn't offer any rewards back at all -- which is unthinkable to me today…

" I get somewhere between 2% and 5% back on virtually everything I buy."

This is more a function of the extreme power that VISA etc. have over the transactions. They are locked into their fees and make it impossible to do things like 'pay this other way and save 2% etc.' i.e. trying to do anything to obfuscate to the consumer that they are in fact responsible for 3% of every purchase you make.

So various entities find ways around those controls by giving you money back in another direction.

Basically, there's immense 'market pressure' on those 3% fees, but the oligarchy has control over it, so those fees will nature be eaten away by any and all other angles.

If there was no oligarchy, those '2% back' programs would be less likely to happen and what we would see is material margin erosion for such fees.

Re: Stripe refunds: fees from the original charge are not returned

#110

Post by rush86999 »

I have one really annoying complaint with stripe connect. Its authentication work flow using oauth is conflicting with aws amplify authentication for social providers. Both of these are pretty much essential nowadays. I hope someone picks up on this comment and considers finding a solution
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