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Apple is actually asking for 100% of SaaS mobile revenue

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Re: Apple is actually asking for 100% of SaaS mobile revenue

#101

Post by jokermatt999 »

raganwald wrote: post #83
ZeroGravitas wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well they do expect a cent. Because they've banned you linking to the website, and they've forced you to use their in-app billing system, and they've banned you from incentivizing customers with a lower price elsewhere and they're taking a huge cut from in-app purchases. So unless you can telepathically control how your customers sign up, Apple's going to be getting quite a few of your cents. It's a bit more complica…

https://raganwald.posterous.com/the-freedom-to-eat-pizza

If you own an iPhone, you've got a ticket and are inside Apple's themepark. You can't leave until the end of the day, or you get charged extra (ETF). Suddenly, Apple pisses off the vendors by killing off their profits. A couple of the vendors talk about going to a different, more open theme park once its announced. You're stuck inside Apple's park, and you're hungry. But the pretzel guy just left because he can't make a profit selling pretzels in Apple's theme park. Why should I be happy as a customer here again? Because Apple's made it so I can pay the pretzel guy (who is no longer here) slightly easier?

Re: Apple is actually asking for 100% of SaaS mobile revenue

#102

Post by raganwald »

jokermatt999 wrote: post #101
raganwald wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://raganwald.posterous.com/the-freedom-to-eat-pizza

If you own an iPhone, you've got a ticket and are inside Apple's themepark. You can't leave until the end of the day, or you get charged extra (ETF). Suddenly, Apple pisses off the vendors by killing off their profits. A couple of the vendors talk about going to a different, more open theme park once its announced. You're stuck inside Apple's park, and you're hungry. But the pretzel guy just left because he can't mak…

OK, pretzels. Your analogy looks like this to me: Pretzel guy has a stand inside the park, where he gives away pretzel tongs for eating hot pretzels. You want pretzels, he used to give you his mobile phone, you'd make a call, give somebody else your credit card, and the pretzels would be delivered to the park.

Now Apple says that (1) he has to sell the pretzels inside the park if he also sells them outside the park, (2) he has to charge the same price, (3) Apple muscles him for 30% of his action on sales inside the park, and (4) he can't have pretzels from outside the park delivered to you in the park. You actually can buy pretzels by phone from his store in the park, or with your web browser, but he can't put the link to his pretzel store or the phone number of his pretzel store on the pretzel tongs he gives away.

If pretzel guy can't make a profit, he leaves. If enough vendors leave, the park is less attractive and fewer people buy tickets.

So yeah, maybe as a customer you won't be happy if pretzel guy can't figure out how to make money at Apple's expense. And yeah, maybe as a developer you aren't happy if you can't figure out how to exploit Apple's customers without Apple exploiting you. And maybe everybody goes somewhere else.

Seems like the free market at work. So what's the problem here? You have choices, exercise your right to choose.

Re: Apple is actually asking for 100% of SaaS mobile revenue

#103

Post by Gibbon »

groby_b wrote: post #84
portman wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean these terms? http://www.apple.com/legal/itunes/us/terms.html Here is "content" being used to mean "everything that's in an app": "The Application Provider of each Third-Party Product is solely responsible for that Third-Party Product, the content therein , any warranties to the extent that such warranties have not been disclaimed, and any claims that you or any other party may have relating to that Third-Par…

Those are the consumer terms. Devs and publishers would instead have to look at the approval terms. ( http://developer.apple.com/appstore/guidelines.html ) And lo & behold, I give you Section 11.13: "Apps can read or play approved content (magazines, newspapers, books, audio, music, video) that is sold outside of the app"... yadda, yadda. Sounds like a definition of "content" to me...

Saas does not sound like a subscription service to me, not in the traditional sense.

Content subscriptions are timed releases of packaged, curated content pushed to you on a regular schedule.

Saas is a portal that lets you access data, information and tools on an ad hoc basis.

Re: Apple is actually asking for 100% of SaaS mobile revenue

#104

Post by loewenskind »

statictype wrote: post #53
loewenskind wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds a bit hyperbolic. The company that is notorious for doing this is Microsoft.

[Citation needed]

You can't possibly be serious. You don't know of Microsoft's long history of copying software that other companies had made, putting them out of business? And three other people as well apparently.

Re: Apple is actually asking for 100% of SaaS mobile revenue

#105

Post by statictype »

loewenskind wrote: post #104
statictype wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[Citation needed]

You can't possibly be serious. You don't know of Microsoft's long history of copying software that other companies had made, putting them out of business? And three other people as well apparently.

'Copying software'? Well, no, I'm not aware of Microsoft's long history of doing this. Surely you don't count Excel as a 'copy' of VisiCalc or Lotus 123 right?

Re: Apple is actually asking for 100% of SaaS mobile revenue

#106

Post by loewenskind »

statictype wrote: post #105
loewenskind wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't possibly be serious. You don't know of Microsoft's long history of copying software that other companies had made, putting them out of business? And three other people as well apparently.

'Copying software'? Well, no, I'm not aware of Microsoft's long history of doing this. Surely you don't count Excel as a 'copy' of VisiCalc or Lotus 123 right?

I can't believe history can be completely forgotten in less than 20 years.

Here are a couple of links I found with a quick googling:

http://www.kmfms.com/whatsbad.html

http://web.archive.org/web/20071215231524/http://www.vcnet.c...

The second tries to document every company destroyed by MS and how.

Re: Apple is actually asking for 100% of SaaS mobile revenue

#107

Post by towelrod »

stcredzero wrote: post #71
GrandMasterBirt wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now take that and move that to Amazon's domain. The currently offer insanely low prices. Selling each book with a 30% to apple can make their profit margin zero or less. Which means that either Amazon must raise prices on their products and thus giving Apple the ability to compete vs Amazon on price via unfair advantage or Amazon pulls out giving apple a monopoly. I don't think Microsoft ever made these sort of polic…

Now take that and move that to Amazon's domain. The currently offer insanely low prices. Selling each book with a 30% to apple can make their profit margin zero or less. There's a new ecosystem waiting to be born here. My read is that Apple is looking ahead at a future full of small/startup ebook publishers. At the local iPhone dev meetup, I met this college kid with a modest little Catholic prayers and affirmations…

> My read is that Apple is looking ahead at a future full of small/startup ebook publishers.

If I was a small/startup, I would happily give over some percentage -- possibly even 30% -- of my revenue to Apple in order to avoid building my own payment system. The App store is really nice, and if they want to compete on the merits of the store, then that's great.

But Apple isn't doing that. They are using the power of their marketshare to force publishers into paying a 30% tithe to Apple just to put an application on the device. It doesn't matter if you are Amazon or the New York Times and already have your own subscription system -- you have to eat the 30% cut.

That's what bothers me about this. If Apple wants to compete by providing a more cost effective point of sale system, then that's great; everyone wins. But they are abusing a monopoly position to force publishers into their system, and in that game, Apple is the only winner.

Re: Apple is actually asking for 100% of SaaS mobile revenue

#108

Post by blueben »

ThomPete wrote: post #92
blueben wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple is marketing their hardware product and the platform, not your app.Yours is just one app out of hundreds of thousands, soon to be millions. If Apple is eating your businesses margins, and you gain nothing from operating on their platform, then what's the point? "I get no profit from my customer, and this may even be costing me money because I'll never recover the cost of iOS app development and maintenance, but…

Can you please show me an utopia where you are not fighting against thousands of competitors? What is this sissy attitude? It's hard to make a living it's hard to make money. You are no paying for the privilege you are paying for access to paying customers.

That's not the point in question and you know it. Stay on topic please.
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