Live data from Hacker News

Illinois governor signs law capping insulin costs at $100 per month

nbc15.com

101–110 of 422 posts

Re: Illinois governor signs law capping insulin costs at $100 per month

#101
If state-controlled healthcare wasn't a racket the cost wouldn't need to be capped.

> “Health care is a right for all, not a privilege and that is why I am so proud that we created an insulin price cap that successfully puts patients above profit,”

Healthcare isn't a right. If it was a natural right it wouldn't be necessary to force people to pay for it.

One day inflation will strike and insulin will no longer be available at that price. Will he be proud then?

Re: Illinois governor signs law capping insulin costs at $100 per month

#102
Unfortunately, this does not act as a price control. This just mandates that insurance companies cap the out-of-pocket expense; it does nothing to affect the retail or wholesale price of insulin except insofar as insurance companies can push back on drug manufacturers.

Net effect of this is yet to be seen, since it doesn't go into effect until 2021, but one possibility is that insurance companies will only cover variants of insulin that are cheaper than the allowed maximum, or the value that they calculate allows maximum extraction of value. Or, alternatively, the price of insurance will rise to spread the cost among all covered people.

The fundamental problem is that insulin should be a commodity, but it is not. Baseline human insulin is actually available fairly cheaply; ~$25 for a month's supply. But pharmaceutical companies have developed and sell a variety of faster-acting and longer-release insulin analogs of increasing price; and although many of them have technically fallen out of patent protection, generic makers have been slow on the uptake and manufacturers have done various tricks (relabeling, etc.) to ensure that they can maintain their effective monopoly.

There's something deeper that is wrong here that is preventing the market from working as it should be working; that is, generic makers making fast-acting insulin cheaply and driving the price down to the marginal price of production.

Re: Illinois governor signs law capping insulin costs at $100 per month

#103
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you can only charge $100, but it costs $110, what happens isn't that it gets sold at $100 anyhow. What happens is that it doesn't get sold. Nobody has an obligation to manufacture insulin. I'm not saying the costs are $110. I don't know. I'm just explaining why this can result in lost insulin.

That's not really a relevant argument here as insulin costs <$5 to manufacture.

Which insulins? Not all insulins are equal or cost the same to produce.

Re: Illinois governor signs law capping insulin costs at $100 per month

#104
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When it costs billions to develop a new drug due to onerous testing regulations, that's what happens. Ultimately returns in every industry tend towards zero. If we made it cheaper to develop new drugs it would extend the lifespan of the industry somewhat but not indefinitely. At some point diminishing returns take over and investment must go down.

Given that closer research is finding that a lot of popular drugs and treatments actually do more harm than good, I don't think it's so easy to characterize the current testing regulations as onerous. The current regime in the USA didn't happen for nothing. It's well-known now that pharma companies had long been exploiting the file drawer effect and p-hacking to inflate the apparent safety and efficacy of their drugs…

https://www.fdareview.org/issues/theory-evidence-and-example...

This provides what to me is compelling evidence that the efficacy requirement by the FDA is wasteful.

Re: Illinois governor signs law capping insulin costs at $100 per month

#105

I'm really past the whole "pharma need to charge high prices to fund research" line of argument. Aside from being factually untrue (research funding is dwarfed by marketing for example[0]), it is also arguing for a continued unhealthy relationship with pharmaceutical care. A large amount of research is currently publicly funded. Either via public academic research or directly. When that research bears fruit it is oft…

This whole cost plus percentage model doesn’t work — it encourages people to drive up costs to increase profit.

I see no reason that pharma manufacturing can’t be done just regular contract manufacturing. The Zika vaccine is a prime example. The US developed the ZIPV vaccine at public expense, and then, for some mind boggling reason, they offered an exclusive license to Sanofi. Imagine if Apple outsourced iPhone manufacturing by giving Foxconn and exclusive license! The US could have solicited bids to manufacture the vaccine and accepted more than one, thus resulting in multiple sources without any IP exclusivity.

Re: Illinois governor signs law capping insulin costs at $100 per month

#106
post #94
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is where I live, so weird visiting the US and seeing "ask your doctor for" adverts. If I asked my GP for a specific medication they'd look at me like an alien.

> If I asked my GP for a specific medication they'd look at me like an alien. He shouldn't. They're not all knowing super genius specialists who keep up with all the drugs and research.

That's why we (the Dutch) have pharmacies that take the prescription of the doctor and then determine, based on your current medicine and medical history, alter your new prescription to fit your need (and he will confer with the GP if needed)

Re: Illinois governor signs law capping insulin costs at $100 per month

#107
post #95
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When it costs billions to develop a new drug due to onerous testing regulations, that's what happens. Ultimately returns in every industry tend towards zero. If we made it cheaper to develop new drugs it would extend the lifespan of the industry somewhat but not indefinitely. At some point diminishing returns take over and investment must go down.

The testing regulations are not onerous. They are necessary to ensure that new medications are both safe and effective. I often see vague complaints about the regulations, but no one seems to have specific suggestions about how to lower drug development costs while still protecting patients.

https://www.fdareview.org/issues/theory-evidence-and-example...

Specific suggestion: get rid of efficacy requirement, keep safety requirement. Let doctors decide what works, as they currently do for off-label uses just fine.

Re: Illinois governor signs law capping insulin costs at $100 per month

#108
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is where I live, so weird visiting the US and seeing "ask your doctor for" adverts. If I asked my GP for a specific medication they'd look at me like an alien.

> It is where I live, so weird visiting the US and seeing "ask your doctor for" adverts. Those ads are a small portion of pharma marketing budgets for prescription products. The vast majority goes to direct-to-doctor marketing.

That's 10 times more unnerving though. Especially given the very recent opioid prescription crisis.

Re: Illinois governor signs law capping insulin costs at $100 per month

#109
The media doesn't seem to be reporting the actual name or number of the bill, so I thought I'd save someone else the trouble of hunting down the full text:

SB0667 - Illinois 101st General Assembly

PRICING-PRESCRIPTION INSULIN

http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/billstatus.asp?DocNum=0667&G...

Re: Illinois governor signs law capping insulin costs at $100 per month

#110
post #54

I'm really past the whole "pharma need to charge high prices to fund research" line of argument. Aside from being factually untrue (research funding is dwarfed by marketing for example[0]), it is also arguing for a continued unhealthy relationship with pharmaceutical care. A large amount of research is currently publicly funded. Either via public academic research or directly. When that research bears fruit it is oft…

Ironically, insulin is a great example of why your premise is false: Insulin replacement was developed a century ago, being first discovered by a government entity (U of Toronto). Private companies commercialized the treatments in the 1940s and 1950s, developing long acting forms that could be administered in a single injection per day. Since then, pharmaceutical companies have made continuous improvements with fewer…

[deleted]
Post reply on HN