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DevDegree: Work at Shopify and get a free CS degree in parallel

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Re: DevDegree: Work at Shopify and get a free CS degree in parallel

#101

Post by golergka »

imtringued wrote: post #79
cmwelsh wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know you’re downvoted for saying something that’s basically unethical, but I’m interested: how do you propose to buy a home using this strategy? All cash? In my area, I’d need around $200,000 cash. I know there’s trailer parks and etc. but they may not work for everyone.

I don't think it is unethical. If people get overwhelmed by student debt because their degree doesn't actually result in job opportunities that allow them to pay that debt back then they have no obligation to pay the debt back. It was the lender's decision to invest their money into such an obviously money losing strategy and yet they did so despite the high risk. The word "undischargeable" made the lender blind but…

> If people get overwhelmed by student debt because their degree doesn't actually result in job opportunities that allow them to pay that debt back then they have no obligation to pay the debt back.

The debt is the obligation to pay back. As far as I know, education loans don't include the clauses you mentioned.

> It was the lender's decision to invest their money into such an obviously money losing strategy and yet they did so despite the high risk.

That's true, but that doesn't absolve the person who took the loan from the responsibility to pay it, and doesn't make not paying it any less unethical.

Ethics and causality are not the same. If you don't lock the door of your apartment, that can dramatically increase the probability of being robbed, and your actions would be the cause of this robbery. But it wouldn't by any yota affect the ethical side of it. (I'm not saying that not paying back the loans is the same as robbery, I'm just explaining the logic using a more obvious example).

Re: DevDegree: Work at Shopify and get a free CS degree in parallel

#102

Post by king_magic »

amznthrowaway5 wrote: post #97
chairmanwow1 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And this is why I always love having a Waterloo intern / new grad on the team. They are just so productive. They hit the ground _sprinting_.

But then the intern experience counts for nothing in terms of "years of experience" for stupid HR departments and most companies usually refuse to give a better than new grad offer to wloo coop grads. Others who instead finished school in 3 years without internships and then started working already have a promotion at that point. I don't recommend anyone talented go coop, just do the normal program, grind leetcode an…

I’ve never ignored co-op/intern experience with folks I’ve interviewed, nor has any HR/recruiting department I’ve ever worked with.

Re: DevDegree: Work at Shopify and get a free CS degree in parallel

#103

Post by jakubwaw »

Does having a degree matter for majority of developer roles? I've gone down the apprenticeship route (UK) and went into web development. Getting a degree would be very unlikely to affect my chances of getting a job (should I move away from freelancing), or a higher salary, not everywhere, but probably 9/10 places.

Keen to hear other experiences and opinions

Re: DevDegree: Work at Shopify and get a free CS degree in parallel

#104

Post by cpr »

a_imho wrote: post #63
fnbr wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They’re not paying them that much- $160 000 over four years, including tuition. So it’s $40 000 a year, which is a great deal imo (for both parties). I assume that, with sufficient screening, you can get someone contributing relatively quickly, and start getting value. I think the key is the screening- they’re not giving this offer to every CS student. At the places I’ve worked, we’ve definitely got value out of inte…

For 40k you can hire senior engineers with degrees in Europe.

That’s 27.5K euro.

Re: DevDegree: Work at Shopify and get a free CS degree in parallel

#105

Post by amznthrowaway5 »

king_magic wrote: post #102
amznthrowaway5 wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But then the intern experience counts for nothing in terms of "years of experience" for stupid HR departments and most companies usually refuse to give a better than new grad offer to wloo coop grads. Others who instead finished school in 3 years without internships and then started working already have a promotion at that point. I don't recommend anyone talented go coop, just do the normal program, grind leetcode an…

I’ve never ignored co-op/intern experience with folks I’ve interviewed, nor has any HR/recruiting department I’ve ever worked with.

From big company recruiting I've seen like here at Amazon they definitely do at least consider it inferior to "real" experience. SDE2 is not given for new coop grads or returning interns with 2 years exp, but you can get SDE2 if you worked at another place full time or at AMZN for 1-2 years. It's pure BS.

Here is an example for you of explicitly requesting non-intern experience:

> BASIC QUALIFICATIONS · 2+ years of non-internship professional software development experience

https://www.amazon.jobs/en/jobs/918696/software-development-...

Re: DevDegree: Work at Shopify and get a free CS degree in parallel

#106

Post by snejj5 »

golergka wrote: post #98
peteretep wrote: post #66

Reminder that this exists, which is a Software Engineering MSc from a reasonably well-known uni, that you're meant to do while working: http://www.cs.ox.ac.uk/softeng/ all-in cost was something like £25,000 for me including accommodation, and they're open minded about accepting people without undergraduate degrees. EDIT: happy to answer questions by email

> they're open minded about accepting people without undergraduate degrees https://www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/graduate/courses/msc-compute... > As a minimum, applicants should hold or be predicted to achieve the equivalent of the following UK qualifications: > a first-class undergraduate degree with honours in a subject with a significant component of mathematics and/or computing. So, is an undergraduate degree required…

Maybe they meant and undergraduate degree in Computer Science is not required?

Re: DevDegree: Work at Shopify and get a free CS degree in parallel

#107

Post by Fredej »

golergka wrote: post #98
peteretep wrote: post #66

Reminder that this exists, which is a Software Engineering MSc from a reasonably well-known uni, that you're meant to do while working: http://www.cs.ox.ac.uk/softeng/ all-in cost was something like £25,000 for me including accommodation, and they're open minded about accepting people without undergraduate degrees. EDIT: happy to answer questions by email

> they're open minded about accepting people without undergraduate degrees https://www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/graduate/courses/msc-compute... > As a minimum, applicants should hold or be predicted to achieve the equivalent of the following UK qualifications: > a first-class undergraduate degree with honours in a subject with a significant component of mathematics and/or computing. So, is an undergraduate degree required…

From the linked page:

> Applications are welcome from anyone with an appropriate combination of academic achievement and industrial experience; a first degree in a related discipline may be useful, but is by no means necessary.

> Each MSc within the Software Engineering Programme is available only to part-time students; there is a separate MSc in Computer Science for full-time students.

I believe the full time study noted here is what you linked to.

Re: DevDegree: Work at Shopify and get a free CS degree in parallel

#108

Post by celticninja »

andrewjrhill wrote: post #84
OJFord wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the UK it's both, 'degree apprenticeships' were introduced recently (couple of years ago): https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/... ('Higher' being 'degree equivalent', and 'degree' being with an actual degree conferred by an actual university.) At Arm I had a colleague who was on that programme, and so was also studying at a university. I think it started off part-time, 2 and 3 days of a we…

This is so great. I would have preferred to do something like this when I was fresh out of High School instead of going the traditional route of studying full-time or immediately entering the workforce.

You still can, im doing this now.

Re: DevDegree: Work at Shopify and get a free CS degree in parallel

#109

Post by matwood »

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #57
cmwelsh wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know you’re downvoted for saying something that’s basically unethical, but I’m interested: how do you propose to buy a home using this strategy? All cash? In my area, I’d need around $200,000 cash. I know there’s trailer parks and etc. but they may not work for everyone.

I know you’re downvoted for saying something that’s basically unethical It was unethical for the system to push an 18 year old down the route of taking on huge loans. I'm not sure that finding a way out of that is.

> the system

So we are going to absolve all 18 year olds of decision making because of 'the system'?

As an 18 year old I was keenly aware of debt. My college experience was going to a local school while working 20-30 hours/week and living at home. All because we didn't have much money, and I wanted to take as few loans as possible.

So maybe this persons parents and primary school failed them, but I don't buy it was the system.

Re: DevDegree: Work at Shopify and get a free CS degree in parallel

#110

Post by peteretep »

epow wrote: post #72
peteretep wrote: post #66

Reminder that this exists, which is a Software Engineering MSc from a reasonably well-known uni, that you're meant to do while working: http://www.cs.ox.ac.uk/softeng/ all-in cost was something like £25,000 for me including accommodation, and they're open minded about accepting people without undergraduate degrees. EDIT: happy to answer questions by email

I'd love to hear more about this. I've been working as a dev for 3 years and looking at senior positions; do you think this course would augment my practical experience. I wonder what level they teach to.

Yes, very much so
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