Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused • Hacker News Board

Re: Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

#101

Post by GhettoMaestro » Sat, Dec 28, 2019, 12:16 AM UTC

walrus01 wrote: post #48

baybal2 wrote: post #7

Well, this is where the industry is going. The latest buzzword we hear in the industry is called "product as a service" — you buy a product, but still don't own it. You have to keep paying them for using your own property or else they remotely brick the device. First gen Ipods were a prime example, but now everybody seem to want to do the same. We recently had a prospective client who had an idea of very cheap intern…

> Well, this is where the industry is going. The latest buzzword we hear in the industry is called "product as a service" — you buy a product, but still don't own it, and have to keep your subscription going so the seller don't remotely brick your device. This is exactly what Cisco has done in the small/medium sized business market with their acquisition of Meraki. Pay forever or your router and wifi stops working. I…

> This is exactly what Cisco has done in the small/medium sized business market with their acquisition of Meraki. Pay forever or your router and wifi stops working. It's abhorrent.

That crazy ass low price you paid on the hardware? Yeah it was a loss-leader with the expectation that you must be a SaaS customer for life if you desire to use it.

It isn't difficult to understand, you just are religiously against it.

Re: Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

#102

Post by DarkStar851 » Sat, Dec 28, 2019, 12:16 AM UTC

Al-Khwarizmi wrote: post #76

starsinspace wrote: post #19

So Sonos devices need "activation" via some server on the internet? Why? If I just want to stream audio within my own home, why is internet even necessary? And what happens when Sonos goes out of business and the servers are shut down? I just don't understand why people keep buying such things...

They seem to be one of the few brands that give good audio quality and modern convenience at the same time. For example, I was looking for a device that would (1) be placeable on my living room furniture[1], and let me use a couple of trusty Monitor Audio speakers both (2) for playing music (e.g. from my phone, computer or streaming sources like Spotify) and (3) for TV audio, as those speakers sound much better than…

The word you're looking for is "entertainment center", but yeah, weird there aren't more products available for that niche! There are lots of home AV receivers that might fit the bill but they tend to be pretty large units.

Re: Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

#103

Post by jacquesm » Sat, Dec 28, 2019, 12:17 AM UTC

shock wrote: post #44

starsinspace wrote: post #19

So Sonos devices need "activation" via some server on the internet? Why? If I just want to stream audio within my own home, why is internet even necessary? And what happens when Sonos goes out of business and the servers are shut down? I just don't understand why people keep buying such things...

I recently bought a couple of Netgear Managed Switches (for Business)⁰ and in their datasheet they list "Local-only management" as a feature. Only after they arrived we discovered that you only get limited functionality in the Local-only management mode, you have to register the switches to your Netgear Cloud account to get access to the full functionality. Reading up on it, this was achieved only after a community o…

You should return them to the middleman, accompanied with a small note about the false advertising and claim a full refund. Make sure to order something from the same vendor that does work.

Re: Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

#104

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Dec 28, 2019, 12:17 AM UTC

jessriedel wrote: post #27

If the devices become useless, how is this any different from Sonos just offering customers "trade-in" value for their old devices (like for used cars) and then throwing them out? Just that the device doesn't get physically mailed to Sonos? Like if you think it's just spiritually bad to throw working things out, fine. But how is Sonos doing wrong by the customer?

[deleted]

Re: Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

#105

Post by atomicthumbs » Sat, Dec 28, 2019, 12:17 AM UTC

jessriedel wrote: post #27

If the devices become useless, how is this any different from Sonos just offering customers "trade-in" value for their old devices (like for used cars) and then throwing them out? Just that the device doesn't get physically mailed to Sonos? Like if you think it's just spiritually bad to throw working things out, fine. But how is Sonos doing wrong by the customer?

Used cars don't get thrown out when they're traded in. And it's not "spiritually bad," it's actively destructive to the environment. Manufacturing things requires a great deal of energy.

Re: Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

#106

Post by userbinator » Sat, Dec 28, 2019, 12:18 AM UTC

If there's a demand, someone industrious will likely figure out a hack --- I hope. Server-side blacklisting (unlike whitelisting) doesn't stop someone from simply changing whatever unique ID they have to a different one. I can even see repair shops doing this service for those who accidentally bricked their devices.

This reminds me of a related situation I've seen with electric toothbrushes --- they have instructions on how to remove the battery "for recycling", which is deliberately designed to make the unit self-destruct in the process (by e.g. making the plastic thin and fragile, and the wires brittle and easily broken), but others have figured out how to use those same instructions to open it up and replace the cells at a fraction of the cost of a new unit. The fact that nothing needs to be broken to replace them, and that it could be trivially designed to make that job much easier, clearly demonstrates planned obolescence.

Re: Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

#107

Post by userbinator » Sat, Dec 28, 2019, 12:20 AM UTC

noodlesUK wrote: post #10

What’s intensely frustrating about this is that audio equipment is one of the few areas where old high end kit is still absolutely fantastic for current users. I have an NAD 3020 from the 1980s which works perfectly with the same pair of speakers that it was bought with. I can’t say the same about other tech, but audio just doesn’t age at the same speed.

I can’t say the same about other tech, but audio just doesn’t age at the same speed.

People's ears have not changed, and the ability to reproduce sound has been nearly perfected. If you're not too picky/audiophillic, like most people, the requirements are even lower.

Re: Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

#108

Post by jhillyerd » Sat, Dec 28, 2019, 12:21 AM UTC

cellularmitosis wrote: post #74

wayoutthere wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then they would have to continue supporting those devices, which isn’t part of the planned obsolescence business model. It would also dilute the luxury brand halo that Sonos has tried to cultivate. It’s more like Louis Vuitton getting into the secondhand market. They too would (and do) destroy merchandise rather than let it get sold at a discount and dilute the brand value.

For a physical device (ie featured-locked upon shipping), “support” amounts to paying the server bill, which is likely negligible.

Not true, Sonos works in a mesh, so all Sonos devices need to talk to each other, and to the controller app on phone or PC.

Re: Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

#109

Post by fourthark » Sat, Dec 28, 2019, 12:23 AM UTC

michaelmrose wrote: post #55

jjtheblunt wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When expensive devices have to "phone home" to first be enabled, that kills the aftermarket for stolen expensive devices?

I feel bad about it but I rather wish it worked this way for expensive power tools. I don't want permanent drm for tools I just want a one time lock that is forever disabled upon purchase. Perhaps electronically while being purchased.

Why?

Re: Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

#110

Post by overgard » Sat, Dec 28, 2019, 12:24 AM UTC

userbinator wrote: post #106

If there's a demand, someone industrious will likely figure out a hack --- I hope. Server-side blacklisting (unlike whitelisting) doesn't stop someone from simply changing whatever unique ID they have to a different one. I can even see repair shops doing this service for those who accidentally bricked their devices. This reminds me of a related situation I've seen with electric toothbrushes --- they have instructions…

> Server-side blacklisting (unlike whitelisting) doesn't stop someone from simply changing whatever unique ID they have to a different one.

Dunno, if the ID works like an activation key it might not recognize ids that don’t pass some sort of cryptographic signature check. Then you would need the private key to generate new valid ids.