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Tech giants sued over deaths of children who mine cobalt

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Re: Tech giants sued over deaths of children who mine cobalt

#101

Post by [deleted] »

FussyZeus wrote: post #87
solidasparagus wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 'infrastructure is a little hit and miss' Lol. The problem isn't a lack of roads, it's the fact that parts of eastern DRC are still effectively war zones. This isn't tech companies not caring, this is an ongoing war, a government incapable of controlling the country (and hardly the good guys even where they do have control), rebel groups (which have control over minerals and need income) running their own proto-sta…

They know enough to get the damn cobalt. They can know more if they want to, or, more likely, not do business with the sort of shady ass organizations who use child labor specifically because they can't get the documentation. I really don't understand this "that's just the way it is" thinking when it comes to corporations doing shady shit overseas. If I went to my DMV and I said "I need to register this car" and had…

[deleted]

Re: Tech giants sued over deaths of children who mine cobalt

#102

Post by vorpalhex »

celticmusic wrote: post #31

Then the law needs to change. It's unconscionable for this to be happening. You make the buyers of that cobalt start caring, you'll make the producers of that cobalt start caring.

I agree, the Swiss should crack down on their mining companies who are running child labor schemes.

Re: Tech giants sued over deaths of children who mine cobalt

#103

Post by brutt »

solidasparagus wrote: post #59
swebs wrote: post #5

>Perhaps the only tragedy greater than the criminal destruction of the environment and the lives of the people of the Congo by these companies is the fact that it would be a rounding error on their income statements to fix the problem. Eh, I don't think giving more money to the third world mining companies is going to guarantee they're going to stop using child labor. The simplest and least risky decision for the tec…

People have tried that for Congolese coltan and the minerals just find their way over the borders to an 'acceptable' purchasing location.

Poor execution.

Re: Tech giants sued over deaths of children who mine cobalt

#104

Post by solidasparagus »

FussyZeus wrote: post #87
solidasparagus wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 'infrastructure is a little hit and miss' Lol. The problem isn't a lack of roads, it's the fact that parts of eastern DRC are still effectively war zones. This isn't tech companies not caring, this is an ongoing war, a government incapable of controlling the country (and hardly the good guys even where they do have control), rebel groups (which have control over minerals and need income) running their own proto-sta…

They know enough to get the damn cobalt. They can know more if they want to, or, more likely, not do business with the sort of shady ass organizations who use child labor specifically because they can't get the documentation. I really don't understand this "that's just the way it is" thinking when it comes to corporations doing shady shit overseas. If I went to my DMV and I said "I need to register this car" and had…

What good do you think a receipt is in that part of the world? Of course they get a certificate of conflict-free production. And if you have a couple bucks in the DRC/Rwanda, you can get one too! Look at diamonds, gold and coltan as useful precedents that show how buyer-side pressure will not improve things unless the buyers choose to stop using the minerals altogether.

Re: Tech giants sued over deaths of children who mine cobalt

#105

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

bjornjaja wrote: post #23
qaq wrote: post #16

I like how people get outraged at US tech giants but gracefully ignore the fact that Glencore which actually is the beneficiary of exploiting the children is based in Europe. It's no small target either with annual revenue of 219.8 billion in 2018 vs Google's 136.

Im sure the lawyers thought of that angle, but the mining company currently doesn’t do anything to effect change so they probably won’t unless their customers (tech companies) demand a change. It really is unfortunate. The mining company should build out proper infrastructure but I’m guessing they just delegate to (corrupt) locals. This is no different than all the global environmental issues we’re facing with large…

But I mean, you see what’s wrong here right? The lawyers thought about it from the angle of who’s actually responsible, but realized that suing that company probably wouldn’t accomplish much lasting change. So they made up reasons to also sue popular tech companies, in hopes that embarrassing them will help serve the lawyers’ goals. That’s not how the process is supposed to work.

Re: Tech giants sued over deaths of children who mine cobalt

#106

Post by FussyZeus »

vinniejames wrote: post #95
FussyZeus wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't think this makes much sense. The mineral supply chain in that part of the world is ridiculously hard to track. It's been designed to be hard to track. Just because the infrastructure is a little hit and miss and the people are overall poorer doesn't mean it's impossible to reliably manage supply lines. The problem is corporations from the "West" don't want to know where the stuff is coming from because they…

The only reason "they know your shoe size" is because you carry around a $1000 phone that tracks your every move and spend all your disposable income through their platforms. The same cannot be said for the poor Cobalt miners, so no they can't just will that info into existence simply because they "want to know"

This is not some arcane magic here. This is making companies responsible for the vetting of their suppliers. Do you know how hard it would be for Apple to check out a mining operation? A plane trip and a few days of a couple people's time. That's fucking it. That is NOTHING to a company like Apple, it would barely be a rounding error in their budget.

And if the mine is in the midst of a warzone and you can't be sure if they aren't using prisoners or children? Then find a different goddamn mine.

Re: Tech giants sued over deaths of children who mine cobalt

#107

Post by adaml_623 »

manigandham wrote: post #82
richmarr wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you offer them a better margin to mine in a more ethically palettable way, and any up-front resources to do so, then it's reasonable to assume that they will. I think this quickly gets into the details though. How much safety is required and what does it cost? Are there alternative materials that cost less than ethical cobalt? What age restrictions should be put on the labour involved and what will those children…

Places where rule of the land (or lack thereof) already lets this happen is unlikely to change simply from increased margins. Most likely they’ll just pocket the increased profit with no improvement in conditions.

Responsible businesses do full inspections of their supply chains. All the way back to the farms which grow the food.

Re: Tech giants sued over deaths of children who mine cobalt

#108

Post by solidasparagus »

brutt wrote: post #103
solidasparagus wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People have tried that for Congolese coltan and the minerals just find their way over the borders to an 'acceptable' purchasing location.

Poor execution.

Lack of incentives for the Rwandan government to prevent it and no mechanism to verify the conflict-free origin of the minerals.

Re: Tech giants sued over deaths of children who mine cobalt

#109

Post by pc86 »

celticmusic wrote: post #31

Then the law needs to change. It's unconscionable for this to be happening. You make the buyers of that cobalt start caring, you'll make the producers of that cobalt start caring.

Then make that argument and lobby the legislature. But you don't change law by bringing irrelevant lawsuits, that's not how it works.

Re: Tech giants sued over deaths of children who mine cobalt

#110

Post by vinniejames »

richmarr wrote: post #58
yibg wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why stop at the direct buyer then? Why not make the end consumer liable too? Make them care, you make the buyers of that cobalt start caring even more right? Heck why don’t we just extend liability down to the end of the chain for everything?

Because the direct buyer is the one who has the most information and the most control. In contrast the end user has almost no information, so punishing them is both unfair and ineffective.

The tech companies are only one hop away from the end user, they are not close to being the direct buyer for these operations
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