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I'm graduating with a CS degree but I don't feel like I know how to program

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Re: I'm graduating with a CS degree but I don't feel like I know how to program

#101

Post by InclinedPlane »

If you're lucky they actually taught you CS when they were giving you that CS degree. If you have a passion for creating software then don't worry, you're in a good place, but you've got tons of work ahead of you. Now you'll need to learn an entirely new set of skills. In terms of books I'd recommend Code Complete, Rapid Development (somewhat misnamed but quite good), and Refactoring. Having CS knowledge will give you a leg up because you will be able to apply certain skills and knowledge to hard problems that most programmers have a hard time coming by (compilers, low-level data structures, etc.)

If you're unlucky then you got a pseudo-trade-school education in Bachelor of Science clothing. Sorry to say that you probably got ripped off. But don't worry, if you have a passion for creating software then you can still use self-study to build up the knowledge and skills necessary to become a true software craftsman, and at least you're not starting at square one. Plus, a CS degree still looks good on paper and will help with job searches.

P.S. Learn source control inside and out, it'll pay massive dividends.

Re: I'm graduating with a CS degree but I don't feel like I know how to program

#102

Post by mattmiller »

I think a lot of students coast through a CS program and expect to be good at programming when they are done. A student should always have a personal project that he is working on outside of school (even if it is really small). Something that he cannot ask the teacher for help with. That way he has experienced unguided learning and has something to show off at job interviews.

Re: I'm graduating with a CS degree but I don't feel like I know how to program

#103

Post by beej71 »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #60
Nitramp wrote: post #49

I think there is huge value in trying to become what has been called a "full stack programmer". In the maning of: try to understand how computer systems work by understanding how each part of the stack works. Don't try to completely understand every subtle detail of every part - try to understand it like you understand how a combustion engine works. My list would be: - basic electronic concepts, ie. transistors, XOR…

Who has the time? And you can be employable knowing only 1 of those. I've done that stuff; by necessity, I'm old enough to have grown up with computers and didn't have it all on a platter. My sons are learning "top down" and doing fine.

Who has time? You have your whole life to study it--it's not exactly time pressure.

Re: I'm graduating with a CS degree but I don't feel like I know how to program

#104

Post by T-hawk »

johngalt wrote: post #83

I'm graduating with an English degree but I don't feel like I know how to write a novel.

Well, bang out 100,000 words and you have a novel. (Also known as the James Joyce approach.) You can't fail at novel writing. A weld or solder joint can leak or disconnect, but a novel can't suddenly stop being a novel.

Whether you can write a novel that is compelling or sellable or worthwhile is another story (pun) altogether, of course.

Re: I'm graduating with a CS degree but I don't feel like I know how to program

#105

Post by hessenwolf »

burgerbrain wrote: post #97
hessenwolf wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone you know knew how to program before college? Just curious: A. Were you born after 1990? B. Is nobody you know from even a slightly disadvantaged background?

I got into programming partly because I didn't have a lot of money. My parents were smart enough to recognize that having at least one computer in the household was incredibly important, but that one computer happened to be a good decade out of date. One of those "I saw this at a yardsale and picked it up for $50s" deals" , the type of machine I use as personal mailservers/spaceheaters these days... I sure couldn't g…

Well, good stuff. :) I didn't have access to a pc before uni (1998); I just ate the material up and practically memorised Deitel & Deitel's c++. I worked for so little cash programming through summer I suffered from malnutrition. I don't even know if I was natural - I just banged my head against the wall until it fell down. It really is rather rewarding :D.

Re: I'm graduating with a CS degree but I don't feel like I know how to program

#106

Post by beambot »

Androsynth wrote: post #99
ja27 wrote: post #55

I'm graduating with a EE degree but I don't feel like I know how to solder. I'm graduating with a ME degree but I don't feel like I know how to weld.

Except professional EE's don't solder and professional ME's dont weld. CS majors overwhelmingly become programmers.

Myself (and many colleagues) are professional EE's. We all own soldering irons and know how to solder in the most basic sense (I'm one of the few with a hot-air rework station and a stereo microscope).

About half of the professional ME's I know either own a TIG/MIG welding system and/or know how to weld.

Re: I'm graduating with a CS degree but I don't feel like I know how to program

#107

Post by dominostars »

hessenwolf wrote: post #92
dominostars wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Frankly, every good programmer I know started programming long before they went to college or at least programmed outside of college for their enjoyment. If you haven't done that and don't do that then I really have to question if you're in the right profession." This scared me in college, since I hardly programmed before (or even during) my degree. However, I've found that it's simply not true. Not just for myself,…

Everyone you know knew how to program before college? Just curious: A. Were you born after 1990? B. Is nobody you know from even a slightly disadvantaged background?

You're responding to the quote of the comment I responded to. I've met many people who started programming late, that was my point.

Re: I'm graduating with a CS degree but I don't feel like I know how to program

#108

Post by johngalt »

T-hawk wrote: post #104
johngalt wrote: post #83

I'm graduating with an English degree but I don't feel like I know how to write a novel.

Well, bang out 100,000 words and you have a novel. (Also known as the James Joyce approach.) You can't fail at novel writing. A weld or solder joint can leak or disconnect, but a novel can't suddenly stop being a novel. Whether you can write a novel that is compelling or sellable or worthwhile is another story (pun) altogether, of course.

The more detailed point I'm trying to make is that there's a reason that development is a profession. Even the masters have to spend some serious time to build things.

In CS programs I've seen many students that expect to leave with the ability to just sit down and code up a Facebook clone off the top of their heads. It's similar in IT roles. There is no class that is "what to do when network is slow 101".

Re: I'm graduating with a CS degree but I don't feel like I know how to program

#109

Post by huertanix »

burgerbrain wrote: post #97
hessenwolf wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone you know knew how to program before college? Just curious: A. Were you born after 1990? B. Is nobody you know from even a slightly disadvantaged background?

I got into programming partly because I didn't have a lot of money. My parents were smart enough to recognize that having at least one computer in the household was incredibly important, but that one computer happened to be a good decade out of date. One of those "I saw this at a yardsale and picked it up for $50s" deals" , the type of machine I use as personal mailservers/spaceheaters these days... I sure couldn't g…

I lived in BFE, Idaho until college and didn't have access to a PC most of my time there, and unfortunately, I had access to zero programmers. My introduction to programming concepts was made through trying to figure out and modify crappy JavaScript snippets on websites in 1999 over a 33.6K connection.

When I entered college, I was surprised that most of my classmates have had broadband connections and better computers for years, but never bothered to do much more than receive email with them.

Re: I'm graduating with a CS degree but I don't feel like I know how to program

#110

Post by markkat »

scott_s wrote: post #98
markkat wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am a pull-learner as well. My physics undergrad and grad courses occasionally required that we program in Fortran, -that's what our profs used. I once asked the head of our program why our degree didn't require any CS courses, but did require that we learn to code. She smiled and said "Well, we think you should just learn it." That short conversation made an impression on me. It wasn't in college study things, I wa…

A good friend of mine is doing her second postdoc in physics. She does cosmology, and spends much of her time programming. For that reason, she has expressed a regret that she did not get much CS background in undergrad. I find the attitude you expressed strange. They still insisted you take math courses, correct? Or did they say, "Well, we think you should just learn differential equations"?

The head of the program was a cosmologist, actually. I know that she taught herself to code, as did the other two profs I worked for. -I think that had something to do with their attitudes. Also, it might have just been from a practicality standpoint. We didn't have the room for multiple CS courses, and the students seemed to be able to pick it up well enough to do what they needed to.

I have to mention, I did take a 100-level CS course as an elective, and personally, it was too basic. I think to get what we needed, we would have had to skip the intro courses, and I it's possible the CS department would have frowned on that. On a related note, my PhD was in medical physics, and our department did have an agreement with the bio department to let us take a 400 level physiology class without the prereqs. It was a point-of-pride in the physics program that our students always lead those classes.

No doubt CS can get deep and anyone that codes could benefit from those higher-level courses. But, I think the situation wouldn't allow for that.

Maybe she was saying that physics students were bright enough to figure out what they needed on their own. From what I saw, she would be correct there. We weren't math majors, but we were pretty able. :)

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