Live data from Hacker News

Shibboleths that get you past the initial script stage

twitter.com

101–110 of 246 posts

Re: Shibboleths that get you past the initial script stage

#101
post #25

Interesting USG shibboleths are using the correct acronyms, especially for insider stuff (TDY, "allowances", "authorities", and referring to NSA as NSA and not "the NSA", CIA as CIA and not "the CIA", State for "the State Department", etc.)

A friend at NSA deliberately uses “the NSA” when speaking about the agency online because of course they do.

Yes, exactly. I’m sure there are PowerPoint decks specifically around how to pass as a non-IC person...

Re: Shibboleths that get you past the initial script stage

#102
post #68

I've found that pretending to know someone's profession, or one related to it, is generally a very bad approach. It's easily seen through, at which point you're worse off than before. Instead, what I do with members of other professions is try to impress on them that I do not know their business but respect its complexity and our roles within the scenario. Whether it's a doctor or a plumber or even a computer technic…

This method works wonders for corporate tech support. They're pretty used to the "my monitor won't turn on (it's not plugged in)" type users so when you try to tell them you know what's wrong, they assume you're there former type and you have no idea what you're talking about. Instead I very clearly tell them the specific symptoms and relevant information that they would look up anyway. Recently I had a corporate ins…

I did similar recently. I emailed the support team with a screenshot of task manager showing what process it was, and I identified (with 30 seconds of googling) what product it was associated with. I like to think that saved everyone an hour of pointless fucking around.

Re: Shibboleths that get you past the initial script stage

#103

Many of these are equivalent to demanding to speak to the manager in order to get what you want. That can backfire quickly if you’re not careful. > Present as if you are collecting a paper trail. Prominent indicia of this include notebooks, organized files, and repeatedly asking for specific names, dates, and citations for authority “for my notes.” I worked at a smaller company where any semi-threatening support requ…

Right. And what really backfires is threatening to sue.

In a company large enough to have a legal department, they'll hand you over to it, and basically nothing will get fixed. They'll record your complaints, dates, and times, and stop interacting with you.

Re: Shibboleths that get you past the initial script stage

#104
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As a Hebrew speaker, I wish the "shibboleth" idiom (which is a good one) was translated, rather than transliterated. laoned idioms are inherently exotic, and this one is worth demystifying Well, it was neither translated, nor transliterated. It was adopted as an english word, with its own dictionary definition and everything. The definition happens to coincide with the Hebrew, but it could just as well not (there a…

That's (for better or worse) an almost defining characteristic of the English language. We take words from other languages and adopt them as English words. It doesn't matter if the word in English means the same thing as the original word, it doesn't matter what language it came from, it doesn't matter if we're combining two words from different languages to make a new word (television is the Greek word 'tele' combin…

Well, that's not a defining characteristic of English but of most (all?) living, dynamic languages. I have seen it with the languages I speak or have tried to learn (Spanish, German, Portuguese, Chinese...).

Re: Shibboleths that get you past the initial script stage

#105

I've found that pretending to know someone's profession, or one related to it, is generally a very bad approach. It's easily seen through, at which point you're worse off than before. Instead, what I do with members of other professions is try to impress on them that I do not know their business but respect its complexity and our roles within the scenario. Whether it's a doctor or a plumber or even a computer technic…

Always assume competence is, I think, a good strategy. People are more willing to help if you flatter their ego. And most importantly, sometimes, people really are competent.

Re: Shibboleths that get you past the initial script stage

#106
post #10

This is (hopefully not) obnoxiously off-topic... As a Hebrew speaker, I wish the "shibboleth" idiom (which is a good one) was translated, rather than transliterated. laoned idioms are inherently exotic, and this one is worth demystifying It means any choice of word (or pronunciation, in the literal example) that clearly identifies the speaker's group affiliations. A good modern example is "LondonDerry/Derry. This'd b…

And for those wondering where it comes from (us Hebrew speakers know, unless we don't pay attention during Haftorah...) here's in the Tanach where the word שבלת is used:

https://www.sefaria.org/Judges.12.6?lang=bi

In Modern Hebrew the term with the modern spelling "שיבולת שועל" is used to mean "Oatmeal"

Re: Shibboleths that get you past the initial script stage

#107
post #71
post #10

This is (hopefully not) obnoxiously off-topic... As a Hebrew speaker, I wish the "shibboleth" idiom (which is a good one) was translated, rather than transliterated. laoned idioms are inherently exotic, and this one is worth demystifying It means any choice of word (or pronunciation, in the literal example) that clearly identifies the speaker's group affiliations. A good modern example is "LondonDerry/Derry. This'd b…

> As a Hebrew speaker, I wish the "shibboleth" idiom (which is a good one) was translated, rather than transliterated. laoned idioms are inherently exotic, and this one is worth demystifying Well, it was neither translated, nor transliterated. It was adopted as an english word, with its own dictionary definition and everything. The definition happens to coincide with the Hebrew, but it could just as well not (there a…

The "definition" of the word doesn't coincide with the Hebrew meaning at all. In Hebrew the word refers to grain (and in modern Hebrew Oat grain.)

The definition comes from a story in the Tanach where the word is used. I believe Christians have appropriated this book of the Tanach, too. And this appropriation is what's reflected in English

https://www.sefaria.org/Judges.12.6?lang=bi

Re: Shibboleths that get you past the initial script stage

#108
post #15
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. I am a native German speaker, and apart from grammar (people usually have a bit of trouble with cases, articles and particles) there are a few nice words to trip people up: - Streichholzschächtelchen (match box – diminutive): https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:De-Streichholzsch%C3... - Austrians use a lot of different words, my favorite being Jänner and not Januar for the month January - Swiss German: Chuch…

Funny on the the swiss example. I was just thinking: that's not hard to say! Hebrew is well adapted to dealing with words made mostly made from subtle variations of s, sh & t sounds... Which brings us full circle to shibboleth/שיבולת

It's שבלת when referring to the biblical use. You got the modern spelling of the word for "oatmeal" from google translate.

See https://www.sefaria.org/Judges.12.6?lang=bi for the source.

Re: Shibboleths that get you past the initial script stage

#109
post #10

This is (hopefully not) obnoxiously off-topic... As a Hebrew speaker, I wish the "shibboleth" idiom (which is a good one) was translated, rather than transliterated. laoned idioms are inherently exotic, and this one is worth demystifying It means any choice of word (or pronunciation, in the literal example) that clearly identifies the speaker's group affiliations. A good modern example is "LondonDerry/Derry. This'd b…

Maybe you can partly blame xkcd for the transliteration. https://xkcd.com/806/

Re: Shibboleths that get you past the initial script stage

#110
post #95
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not Irish, so Derry is just as exotic as shibboleth. English is made of Greek and Latin and German and more; it's weird to say that one of those languages is exotic, but weirder still to level that complaint against the oldest known word whose meaning hinges on it being intentionally exotic. Finally, Londonderry/Derry is a disagreement, not a shibboleth. Shibboleth is about having the ability to pass as a native,…

It's also a disagreement. In practice and common language though, the choice of words gives you information about the speaker.

But it can be faked, in a way that a Shibboleth can’t
Post reply on HN