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Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

bbc.com

101–110 of 784 posts

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#101
post #38

It's not torture if you can leave at any time. He wasn't being held in the embassy, he was hiding there.

Ah, the old “he was free to leave anytime” argument. No. He wasn’t. Yes, technically, he was free to leave, but arguing that is ignoring the fact that leaving would mean jail. It’s victim blaming. Would you say a victim of Stockholm Syndrome is “free to leave at any time”? No, because that’s a ridiculous argument. Would you say Snowden is “free to leave [Russia] at any time”? No! So why is it an acceptable argument w…

Either there's a rule of law or there's not. You can't hide from the police and then claim that the very act of hiding is an act of torture enacted on you by the police.

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#102
By the way, Chelsea Manning (the actual leaker) has been in jail for just over 6 months - again - for refusing to testify in the Assange extradition case.

If you're so inclined, send something to her legal defense fund: https://actionnetwork.org/fundraising/chelsea-manning-needs-...

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#103
post #42
post #38

It's not torture if you can leave at any time. He wasn't being held in the embassy, he was hiding there.

"Melzer was accompanied during his prison visit on 9 May by two medical experts specialised in examining potential victims of torture and other ill-treatment." Are you saying we should take your word over theirs?

He’s not saying that Assange didn’t have symptoms similar to a torture victim - just that he was there voluntarily, and so it isn’t actually torture.

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#104
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/julian-ass... > Assange, who was aware that it was the expressed wish of the injured party and a prerequisite of sexual intercourse that a condom be used, consummated unprotected sexual intercourse with her without her knowledge. > Assange deliberately consummated sexual intercourse with her by improperly exploiting that she, due to sleep, was in a helpless state. It…

That's literally rape. If you consent to a sex act, that doesn't mean you consent to any sex act. If you "switch holes", or "lose the condom" or simply don't put one on at all, without consent, that's a non-consensual sex act and thus rape.

If you lose the condom it doesn't make it rape. It makes you a loser who will probably be a social outcast.

If you agreed before to kiss for 10 minutes but stop after 5 it doesn't make it rape either.

If the person asks you to stop and you refuse that's rape.

If she finishes first and asks you to stop and you continue that is rape.

But you don't need to have a detailed conversation agreeing to everything beforehand. If you try something and the other person doesn't stop the action it is not rape.

You could both agree not to do something beforehand and end up doing that act and it wouldn't make it rape unless one party refused that action during the attempt.

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I recall the evidence was always pretty weak. I don’t have time to find the news article from back then, but it was “sexual assault” because he didn’t wear a condom and at the time the woman (perhaps plural) didn’t want to really participate. Could be wrong though... Does anyone have some news from back then?

I do think it's likely that, assault or not, Assange behaved in an unaceptable way toward these women. He has often been quoted mentioning that he has children all over the world with various women. Surreptitiously removing a condom would be in character. If true, his attitude reminds me of Jeff Epstein's plan to "seed the human race with his DNA" by impregnanting a bunch of women on a ranch he owned. These people se…

>"Surreptitiously removing a condom would be in character."

You provide zero evidence for that naked assertion.

> it's not all propaganda.

If it has no evidnce and no substance as it seems no to, the rationale behind it is of academic interest alone. Maybe it's pure malice? Maybe it's jealous rage? Maybe it's delusional? Maybe it's propaganda? Maybe it's just not interesting what caused it - it shouldn't be to the legal process. Substance is everything. What seems like a strong lack of it here, stinks.

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#106
post #38

It's not torture if you can leave at any time. He wasn't being held in the embassy, he was hiding there.

I'm not weighing in on this particular example because I haven't looked at in sufficient depth.

However I want to strongly push back on the argument that: something can't be torture or abuse because the person is physically able to leave. The absence of a locked door does not capture the full scope of coercion and psychological in many situations.

This sort of excuse is often used by cults and domestic abusers to justify why the terrible things they do are not abusive. People die or have life long psychological trauma from hazing rituals that they are "free to leave at any point".

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#107
post #30
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. His self-imposed sequester was not in prison and had NOTHING to do with justice or serving time. He willingly chose his location and is allowed to leave it at any moment. Can you say that of any prisoner? He had free access to internet and visitors and many many luxuries rightfully denied to criminals serving time 2. Even if you think his "self-imposed punishment" was bad, it categorically by definition is not jus…

I don't care if his voluntary embassy stay was "similar to a Nordic prison" because he was not made to stand trial and face justice for his crimes. Justice isn't "well I did a bad thing and locked myself in a comfy house with internet and takeout food for a few years". Could you even imagine? His "freedom of movement" is self-restricted by his fear that he will have to face justice for acting as an agent of Russian m…

> His "freedom of movement" is self-restricted by his fear that he will have to face justice for acting as an agent of Russian military intelligence to attack America including laundering Russian intelligence into America to upset elections.

Let's assume for a moment that your premise is true, and Assange got the DNC documents from Russian intelligence.

Should he have buried the documents? He had in his possession documents that a huge number of Americans would find politically interesting. They showed, among other things, that DNC operatives were biased against Bernie Sanders and looking for ways to undermine him. They also contained transcripts of speeches to Wall Street firms that Hillary Clinton had refused to publish during the primaries.

Assange has always said that he will publish whatever documents are verifiable and of public interest. If he had decided not to publish the DNC documents, that would have been a violation of his stated principles. It would even look like he's hiding documents in order to help Hillary Clinton win the election.

What you're describing as "acting as an agent of Russian military intelligence" is actually the publication of documents of public interest - something journalists do. If what you're saying is correct, every NY Times journalist who publishes state secrets could be thrown in jail. Imagine if a NY Times journalist got a cache of documents about misdeeds of the Russian government, and the NY Times were to publish those documents. Imagine then that the Russian government claimed those documents came from a foreign intelligence service, and labeled the NY Times journalist a hostile intelligence agent. Would you support the extradition of that journalist to Russia to face charges of espionage?

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#108
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's chatter that the Queen of England is a lizard shapeshifter. The claims that one accuser was a CIA operative appear very, very thin. https://www.theguardian.com/media/2010/dec/07/rape-claims-ju... > What has most engaged the conspiracy theorists and Assange's more excitable defenders, however, are a few key incidents in Miss A career, in particular that she is said to have worked in the Swedish embassy in the…

In may she was quoted as saying "she wanted to reopen the case at any cost" and "get justice". I guess she's cool with it now? /s

Victims and prosecutors disagree on the path forwards regularly.

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#110
post #38

It's not torture if you can leave at any time. He wasn't being held in the embassy, he was hiding there.

Ah, the old “he was free to leave anytime” argument. No. He wasn’t. Yes, technically, he was free to leave, but arguing that is ignoring the fact that leaving would mean jail. It’s victim blaming. Would you say a victim of Stockholm Syndrome is “free to leave at any time”? No, because that’s a ridiculous argument. Would you say Snowden is “free to leave [Russia] at any time”? No! So why is it an acceptable argument w…

Snowden's case is different, if I'm not mistaken, since the US suspended his passport. Meaning he cannot travel anywhere else (unless he's got a Russian passport, which I doubt).
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