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Tesla’s European gigafactory will be built in Berlin

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Re: Tesla’s European gigafactory will be built in Berlin

#101

Post by ludwigschubert »

zeristor wrote: post #87
tnolet wrote: post #52

I'm curious about how the massive left/anti-fa movement in Berlin will react to this one. They kept out Google after massive protests. Not sure this is the same thing though. https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/oct/24/google-ab... p.s. I'm based in Berlin. Have no horse in the race except that the Google office would have been right down the street of where I work.

Anti-fa, isn’t that just a term used by fascists? Fas? Wasn’t the Allied War effort in WW2 “Anti-Fa”? Or am I missing something? Perhaps this could be added to the reminders list for the next Remembrance Day?

In Germany they certainly self-identify with that name. Unsure why the website is down these days, but here's an archive link: https://web.archive.org/web/20160304102539/http://www.antifa...

Re: Tesla’s European gigafactory will be built in Berlin

#102

Post by freeflight »

zeristor wrote: post #87
tnolet wrote: post #52

I'm curious about how the massive left/anti-fa movement in Berlin will react to this one. They kept out Google after massive protests. Not sure this is the same thing though. https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/oct/24/google-ab... p.s. I'm based in Berlin. Have no horse in the race except that the Google office would have been right down the street of where I work.

Anti-fa, isn’t that just a term used by fascists? Fas? Wasn’t the Allied War effort in WW2 “Anti-Fa”? Or am I missing something? Perhaps this could be added to the reminders list for the next Remembrance Day?

You are missing a lot [0].

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-World_War_II_anti-fascism

Re: Tesla’s European gigafactory will be built in Berlin

#103

Post by k__ »

zepearl wrote: post #91
k__ wrote: post #57

Could build it on the old airport.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berlin_Brandenburg_Airport#Pro... It was originally intended to replace both Schönefeld and Berlin Tegel Airport and become the single commercial airport serving Berlin and the surrounding State of Brandenburg, an area with a combined 6 million inhabitants. However, it is now planned that it will not replace any, with Schönefeld Airport currently being expanded due to rising passenger nu…

I meant Tempelhof

Re: Tesla’s European gigafactory will be built in Berlin

#104

Post by cyberpunk »

sneak wrote: post #65
k__ wrote: post #57

Could build it on the old airport.

https://brandenburg-braucht-tegel.de/ There are a lot of Berliners who love Tegel and don't want it to close even when BBI is eventually open (whenever that may be). TXL is truly a fantastic airport, and would become even better when not overcrowded.

Terminal A is great, separate security queues for each gate means you can arrive 20 mins before your flight leaves and it's fine, provided you're flying BA or Lufthansa...

B, C and D are as crappy as you'd expect hosting sleazyjet, ryanair, germanwings etc etc, although it's 80% business flights in the mornings and seasoned air travelers tend to make security and so on less bothersome than if you arrive at the same time as 150 hungover brits trying to get back to gatwick.. ;)

Re: Tesla’s European gigafactory will be built in Berlin

#105

Post by k__ »

detaro wrote: post #97
k__ wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I meant Tempelhof :D

You really think turning a popular public park (or if you mean the buildings, a publicly owned/used building with preservation status) in a central-ish location in the city, with worse freight transport connections than the airport, into a factory is a sensible or politically viable solution?

I had the impression it was a privatly owned property the owner wanted to use in a more profitable way.

Re: Tesla’s European gigafactory will be built in Berlin

#106

Post by detaro »

jcranmer wrote: post #99
choeger wrote: post #2

Please drop your inevitable BER jokes below so we can recylce them properly later.

Wait, so if I have this correct, the airport took ~6 years to construct and 9 years and counting to correct problems with its construction? Meaning that it would have been faster to tear the entire building down and rebuild it from scratch than it is taking to remedy the issues? How does that happen‽

Massive failures in oversight and management. Airport building/management company that makes changes to the design pretty randomly, total failure in oversight mechanisms (basically, there was no review process in place which could have caught this while it was going on), as a result a building that doesn't match the original plans, doesn't conform to regulations and where in the end the actual state of what exists wasn't even known. Brought down by failing the fire safety certifications shortly before the opening, at which point the slow "figure out what happened and who to blame" process began, and then attempts to fix it. It's a glorious mess.

Even if there had been a consensus on almost-rip-and-replace immediately, it's not clear that could have been done as quickly, given the amount of preparation needed.

(As an example of the kind of changes, during the building process they decided to re-assign arrivals and departures to different floors of the building. Which in an airport has fairly fundamental consequences due to security zones etc...)

Re: Tesla’s European gigafactory will be built in Berlin

#107

Post by freeflight »

jcranmer wrote: post #99
choeger wrote: post #2

Please drop your inevitable BER jokes below so we can recylce them properly later.

Wait, so if I have this correct, the airport took ~6 years to construct and 9 years and counting to correct problems with its construction? Meaning that it would have been faster to tear the entire building down and rebuild it from scratch than it is taking to remedy the issues? How does that happen‽

That's what happens when political corruption becomes a culture, while nobody wants to seriously talk about it.

Re: Tesla’s European gigafactory will be built in Berlin

#108

Post by detaro »

k__ wrote: post #105
detaro wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You really think turning a popular public park (or if you mean the buildings, a publicly owned/used building with preservation status) in a central-ish location in the city, with worse freight transport connections than the airport, into a factory is a sensible or politically viable solution?

I had the impression it was a privatly owned property the owner wanted to use in a more profitable way.

It's owned by the city and last time there were plans about developing it permanently a public vote enacted a law preventing it from being built on.

Re: Tesla’s European gigafactory will be built in Berlin

#109

Post by klausa »

pjc50 wrote: post #59
tnolet wrote: post #52

I'm curious about how the massive left/anti-fa movement in Berlin will react to this one. They kept out Google after massive protests. Not sure this is the same thing though. https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/oct/24/google-ab... p.s. I'm based in Berlin. Have no horse in the race except that the Google office would have been right down the street of where I work.

Tesla isn't particularly political and there's no Fascist angle?

Tesla is a luxury-good company that collects petabytes of data from public roads daily, is run by a billionaire that regularly makes an ass of himself on Twitter and is vocally anti-union.

I'll join the protests myself.

Re: Tesla’s European gigafactory will be built in Berlin

#110

Post by usrusr »

jcranmer wrote: post #99
choeger wrote: post #2

Please drop your inevitable BER jokes below so we can recylce them properly later.

Wait, so if I have this correct, the airport took ~6 years to construct and 9 years and counting to correct problems with its construction? Meaning that it would have been faster to tear the entire building down and rebuild it from scratch than it is taking to remedy the issues? How does that happen‽

According to lore, it all started with the architect deciding against the tried and tested usage of little chimney-like structure on top of the terminal roofs for fire protection de-fuming, insisting instead on some novel, less visible solutions for aesthetic reasons. Those then caused all kinds of follow-up issues, eventually leading into the construction equivalent of the perpetual bugfix cycle, where every fix brings two new problems. Compounded by a colorful parade of high level "fix it guys" taking over the reins and failing in short progression, adding to the chaos.
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