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U of Chicago projected to be the first U.S. university to cost $100k per year

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Re: U of Chicago projected to be the first U.S. university to cost $100k per year

#101

Post by chrischattin »

jmpman wrote: post #95
chrischattin wrote: post #17

How to fix student loans... The .gov backs student loans. And, they are non-dischargeable. So, it is zero risk for the lender to give loan to the 2.7 GPA moron getting a worthless basket weaving degree from the local private lib arts school for $100k. So, they give as many loans as possible, since they can't lose (taxpayer on the hook). Colleges are incentivized to drive up costs of tuition b/c tons of free money. It…

Or, track the loan payback percentage for each degree, let’s say 5 years after graduation. Publish those results, and stop making loans for programs where the repayment is less than X%. Then, basket weaving degrees won’t get loans, the cost for basket weaving programs will go down, as only those with parent’s stupid money will pay for basket weaving degrees. Students will be directed by market forces to degrees that…

That already happens. Lenders just don't care because they can't lose money on those loans b/c reasons stated above.

Re: U of Chicago projected to be the first U.S. university to cost $100k per year

#102

Post by slg »

chimi wrote: post #80
slg wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is fundamentally incompatible with the idea that everyone should be able to afford to go to college and private institutions need to foot the bill for the costs. We as a society prioritized availability of college education over costs. In order to get both you would likely have to change to some income percentage based repayment system instead of traditional loan repayments and that probably wouldn't be possible…

Debt as an investment is fine. If you are investing in your future with your education, okay, but that requires the education be practical. It must have a value greater than its cost. That is not true for most education and thus we are not investing in our future as a society with this debt. I'd rather the debt we incur as a society be spent on infrastructure and engineers than wicker baskets. Wicker baskets don't la…

Sure, but once you bring financial value into the equation it starts limiting access. Not everyone can be an engineering major. Not everyone even belongs at college in the first place. But we as a society want everyone who wants to go to college to be able to afford it (at least initially). That is not compatible with a profit minded view of that education being a sound financial investment for each individual student.

Re: U of Chicago projected to be the first U.S. university to cost $100k per year

#103

Post by slg »

usefulcat wrote: post #91
slg wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is fundamentally incompatible with the idea that everyone should be able to afford to go to college and private institutions need to foot the bill for the costs. We as a society prioritized availability of college education over costs. In order to get both you would likely have to change to some income percentage based repayment system instead of traditional loan repayments and that probably wouldn't be possible…

Regarding income-based repayment, I think Purdue was experimenting with this, and may still be. I haven't heard of any significant government involvement in that program. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/grade-point/wp/2016/04/1...

I didn't know that, thanks for passing it along. The reason I think the government needs to be involved is because this isn't going to be financially viable for every student at every college and therefore private banks won't want to participate. Purdue seems to have found a way around that by funding the program themselves but I wonder if that self funding is scalable.

Re: U of Chicago projected to be the first U.S. university to cost $100k per year

#104

Post by chrischattin »

slg wrote: post #55
chrischattin wrote: post #17

How to fix student loans... The .gov backs student loans. And, they are non-dischargeable. So, it is zero risk for the lender to give loan to the 2.7 GPA moron getting a worthless basket weaving degree from the local private lib arts school for $100k. So, they give as many loans as possible, since they can't lose (taxpayer on the hook). Colleges are incentivized to drive up costs of tuition b/c tons of free money. It…

This is fundamentally incompatible with the idea that everyone should be able to afford to go to college and private institutions need to foot the bill for the costs. We as a society prioritized availability of college education over costs. In order to get both you would likely have to change to some income percentage based repayment system instead of traditional loan repayments and that probably wouldn't be possible…

College was dirt cheap before student loans became non-dischargeable and the government started backing them.

Re: U of Chicago projected to be the first U.S. university to cost $100k per year

#105

Post by mdasen »

bluetidepro wrote: post #14

Is University of Chicago even that good? Genuinely curious, as I know nothing about it. I live here in Chicago, and feel like I never hear about it, compared to say Northwestern or like UIC (University of Illinois at Chicago). Why would anyone ever pay that much for college yearly, if it wasn't like the #1 school, by a landslide, in the US? EDIT: I guess it is good? haha The more you know. Just surprising that I've b…

Yes, it is a top school in the country, equivalent to an Ivy League school.

In terms of the price, a few things come into play. First, most other schools have similar pricing. Northwestern is $54.6k and U Chicago is $58.2k. Yep, it's $3,600 per year, but is a 6% difference that meaningful? Maybe not given that university education has lots of other expenses. Room and board might end up eating a grand or two at another school out of that $3,600.

Plus, as a student, often you don't get full choice. It's not like going to the store and being allowed to buy whatever phone you can afford. The university has to pick you first.

Beyond that, the sticker price isn't what most people pay. For students coming from families earning over $110k/year, the net price is $40.8k. Northwestern's sticker is $3,600 cheaper, but the net for rich kids is $40.3k or only $500 cheaper.

Not only that, for lower-income students, U Chicago is cheaper. In the $0-30k bracket, $3.2k vs $13.4k; $30k-48k, $6.3k vs $7.4k; $48k-75k, $7.9k vs $10.7k.

So, is U Chicago more expensive? If your family is making half a million a year, maybe you're paying sticker everywhere and your family has to pay more for U Chicago. However, the sticker price isn't that meaningful given the parental income based sliding scale that universities use.

Re: U of Chicago projected to be the first U.S. university to cost $100k per year

#106

Post by vonmoltke »

belltaco wrote: post #100
jmpman wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or, track the loan payback percentage for each degree, let’s say 5 years after graduation. Publish those results, and stop making loans for programs where the repayment is less than X%. Then, basket weaving degrees won’t get loans, the cost for basket weaving programs will go down, as only those with parent’s stupid money will pay for basket weaving degrees. Students will be directed by market forces to degrees that…

That will automatically happen because lending banks will do it, just like car, home and health insurance.

There are no lending banks. The money comes directly from the Department of Education.

Re: U of Chicago projected to be the first U.S. university to cost $100k per year

#107

Post by moduspol »

Finnucane wrote: post #11
sorenn111 wrote: post #7

One thing I find crazy is the very same institutions that are generally very left leaning, decry income inequality, and espouse generally liberal views then turn around and having tuition costs that having been rising at rates so far above inflation. Student debt is a major issue in the US and the ever increasing costs of tuition are a MAJOR culprit in pushing this crisis. Where are these costs coming from? How can y…

I work at one local university, and my wife works at another. One thing we've definitely noticed (and this is a widespread problem) is that the administration is becoming more top-heavy. There are cutbacks in faculty, support, and teaching staff, more reliance on adjuncts (academic temps, basically), and so on, while central administration grows. Expensive new buildings contribute, but less than people suppose. But t…

I worked for five years at a private university a few years ago, and my experience is similar, although to add a little:

It never felt like a plan or conspiracy to make administration costs bigger. It's just very easy to do when you have more money coming in, year after year. In another economic environment, you'd get a "hard no" because the money isn't there. But when there is, expenditures become just another bargaining chip. Maybe you get your seventh librarian this year, and I get my fifth network guy next year.

New buildings (as you stated) aren't as big of a contributor as expected due to the convoluted role of donations, grants, etc. But another big factor for those buildings is that we were getting loans for them, too, and those were based on (big surprise) long term forecasts presuming this gravy train is going to keep on chugging for the next 30+ years. And even then we were getting projections of our "debt capacity" and always riding that line, so it's debt on top of debt all the way down.

I don't know about big schools, but for a smaller one like ours, there was no visible bad faith. These kind of things just happen when you can keep bringing in more and more money and so can your competitors.

Re: U of Chicago projected to be the first U.S. university to cost $100k per year

#108

Post by harwoodjp »

chrischattin wrote: post #17

How to fix student loans... The .gov backs student loans. And, they are non-dischargeable. So, it is zero risk for the lender to give loan to the 2.7 GPA moron getting a worthless basket weaving degree from the local private lib arts school for $100k. So, they give as many loans as possible, since they can't lose (taxpayer on the hook). Colleges are incentivized to drive up costs of tuition b/c tons of free money. It…

"2.7 GPA moron getting a worthless basket weaving degree"

You sound like a STEM-lord, anti-intellectual dork.

Re: U of Chicago projected to be the first U.S. university to cost $100k per year

#109

Post by vonmoltke »

harwoodjp wrote: post #108
chrischattin wrote: post #17

How to fix student loans... The .gov backs student loans. And, they are non-dischargeable. So, it is zero risk for the lender to give loan to the 2.7 GPA moron getting a worthless basket weaving degree from the local private lib arts school for $100k. So, they give as many loans as possible, since they can't lose (taxpayer on the hook). Colleges are incentivized to drive up costs of tuition b/c tons of free money. It…

"2.7 GPA moron getting a worthless basket weaving degree" You sound like a STEM-lord, anti-intellectual dork.

I don't like that line, either, but it's not an excuse to get personal and nasty.

Re: U of Chicago projected to be the first U.S. university to cost $100k per year

#110

Post by threeisoneis »

misiti3780 wrote: post #71

As a US citizen, I see the US debt bomb ending it two different ways 1. Sanders/Warren get elected and somehow forgive 1.5 trillion in student loans and make education free going forward. 2. 2008 level crisis with (2) is the more probable I think universities tuition is way too expensive in our country, but I'm against (1) currently because I don't think retroactively forgiving debt is a good policy. The students too…

Do you believe the same thing about medical debt? Why or why not?
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