Gmail marking email from me as spam • Hacker News Board

Re: Gmail marking email from me as spam

#101

Post by xxs » Fri, Oct 25, 2019, 8:37 AM UTC

sdan wrote: post #8

Google's making us play by their rules: 1. Our ML models see that your emails spam? You're spam. 2. You're using Tor or a VPN? Here's 10 reCaptcha's. 3. Don't use Google Webmaster or use AMPs? Good luck finding your page on the 1st page. 4. Youtube video includes education hacking tutorials? Demonetized. Obviously some alternatives are moving to Fastmail and using Duck Duck Go, but we need Google to stop this "my way…

>2. You're using Tor or a VPN? Here's 10 reCaptcha's.

I get recapthca ALL the time for just not being logged on and deleting all filthy cookies on exit; and not "honoring" 3rd party cookies at all... and I don't care. Best part is that if you live in a country you don't speak the language you get google services in one of the country official languages -- so what you should do and mark is often unclear. The next best part is a road trip through Europe (edit adding "?hl=en" to the url tends to fix the issue in most of google services)

>4. Youtube video includes education hacking tutorials? Demonetized.

History is a far greater offender.

>1. Our ML models see that your emails spam? You're spam.

Years ago, I recall my company hosted gmail started detecting CEO mails as spam... and he was pissed for not getting responses.

Re: Gmail marking email from me as spam

#102

Post by kalleboo » Fri, Oct 25, 2019, 8:42 AM UTC

xxs wrote: post #101

sdan wrote: post #8

Google's making us play by their rules: 1. Our ML models see that your emails spam? You're spam. 2. You're using Tor or a VPN? Here's 10 reCaptcha's. 3. Don't use Google Webmaster or use AMPs? Good luck finding your page on the 1st page. 4. Youtube video includes education hacking tutorials? Demonetized. Obviously some alternatives are moving to Fastmail and using Duck Duck Go, but we need Google to stop this "my way…

>2. You're using Tor or a VPN? Here's 10 reCaptcha's. I get recapthca ALL the time for just not being logged on and deleting all filthy cookies on exit; and not "honoring" 3rd party cookies at all... and I don't care. Best part is that if you live in a country you don't speak the language you get google services in one of the country official languages -- so what you should do and mark is often unclear. The next best…

I was getting really long and annoying recaptcha all the time, presumably because I use Safari which has all that anti-tracking stuff. But lately (past 2-3 months?) I only get a single challenge, I wonder if they've found a way around the protection or if they've just changed the model

Re: Gmail marking email from me as spam

#103

Post by jokoon » Fri, Oct 25, 2019, 8:44 AM UTC

I think there's a gmail filter where lets you prevent some mail from being market as spam...

Re: Gmail marking email from me as spam

#104

Post by teekert » Fri, Oct 25, 2019, 8:45 AM UTC

I feel like there is no way to do this. I was once very happy when I finally got my own basement email server to work (I tried it off and on for years before often giving up), running on Arch. For some time I was the happiest person in the world, I could send emails of >100 mb to my wife, have unlimited storage, unlimited aliases (which can even go to multiple people). I could email my server and make it do things. I was using TLS (whereas me.com and hotmail.com at the time were not!), I was using the internet the way it was intended!

But then Outlook.com stopped accepting my emails, they were not even in any spam folders. Several emails later I got a response from someone at MS: We don't know how the filters work, they are black boxes to us. Sorry, try to write emails that don't look like spam...

Soon after I gave up on my server. Maybe you can use a third party (paid) smtp forwarding service?

Re: Gmail marking email from me as spam

#105

Post by xxs » Fri, Oct 25, 2019, 8:47 AM UTC

kalleboo wrote: post #102

xxs wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>2. You're using Tor or a VPN? Here's 10 reCaptcha's. I get recapthca ALL the time for just not being logged on and deleting all filthy cookies on exit; and not "honoring" 3rd party cookies at all... and I don't care. Best part is that if you live in a country you don't speak the language you get google services in one of the country official languages -- so what you should do and mark is often unclear. The next best…

I was getting really long and annoying recaptcha all the time, presumably because I use Safari which has all that anti-tracking stuff. But lately (past 2-3 months?) I only get a single challenge, I wonder if they've found a way around the protection or if they've just changed the model

>Safari which has all that anti-tracking stuff.

Default Safari option for 3rd party cookies is: "from visited". Check if you have cookies set, if you do - they know you have been a good boy.

Re: Gmail marking email from me as spam

#106

Post by dazbradbury » Fri, Oct 25, 2019, 8:50 AM UTC

I've had multiple legitimate emails from Google employees and their sales teams all end up in my Gmail spam folder, even from senior members of various divisions.

I still get spam in my inbox.

They definitely know this is a problem and have people working on it - but spam filtering at that scale is much harder than it may appear at first.

Re: Gmail marking email from me as spam

#107

Post by majewsky » Fri, Oct 25, 2019, 8:51 AM UTC

kalleboo wrote: post #102

xxs wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>2. You're using Tor or a VPN? Here's 10 reCaptcha's. I get recapthca ALL the time for just not being logged on and deleting all filthy cookies on exit; and not "honoring" 3rd party cookies at all... and I don't care. Best part is that if you live in a country you don't speak the language you get google services in one of the country official languages -- so what you should do and mark is often unclear. The next best…

I was getting really long and annoying recaptcha all the time, presumably because I use Safari which has all that anti-tracking stuff. But lately (past 2-3 months?) I only get a single challenge, I wonder if they've found a way around the protection or if they've just changed the model

FWIW I've observed the same change in Firefox on Linux (with privacy.resistfingerprinting enabled) in the last few months.

Re: Gmail marking email from me as spam

#108

Post by xxs » Fri, Oct 25, 2019, 8:52 AM UTC

vfclists wrote: post #80

The legal naivete and indifference of otherwise technological savvy people is mind boggling. It is not the task of mail providers to block or hide email considered to be spam. It is the job of the end users, ie the email providers cusstomers and their software. Consider physical junk mail, ie the type that comes through the letter box. The post office does not decide what is junk mail or not, their job is to deliver…

>Consider physical junk mail...

Where I live it takes a sticker 'no spam' glued to the mail box and no more junk happens

Re: Gmail marking email from me as spam

#109

Post by xxs » Fri, Oct 25, 2019, 8:54 AM UTC

cnst wrote: post #55

LeoPanthera wrote: post #4

Is this problem unique to Gmail? Do owners of self-hosted mail servers also have problems sending mail to Yahoo, Outlook, AOL, iCloud? Do these providers have a better mechanism for getting yourself un-blocked?

The problem is that Gmail and G Suite essentially have monopoly on email nowadays. Even some pretty big companies are amongst the users. All startups are using G Suite. As are many billion-dollar companies like Twitter, Arista Networks, Netflix, WeWork, a16z, YCombinator. What do you do if you can't email any of the people at all these corps?

Microsoft outlook is rather huge on its right own.

Re: Gmail marking email from me as spam

#110

Post by brongondwana » Fri, Oct 25, 2019, 8:58 AM UTC

LeoPanthera wrote: post #13

sdan wrote: post #8

Google's making us play by their rules: 1. Our ML models see that your emails spam? You're spam. 2. You're using Tor or a VPN? Here's 10 reCaptcha's. 3. Don't use Google Webmaster or use AMPs? Good luck finding your page on the 1st page. 4. Youtube video includes education hacking tutorials? Demonetized. Obviously some alternatives are moving to Fastmail and using Duck Duck Go, but we need Google to stop this "my way…

"Moving to Fastmail" is such a popular alternative that if they ever get to any kind of reasonable size we'll be in the same position all over again. That should not be the suggestion. Many smaller providers encourages the competition necessary for an open network, not a small number of huge providers.

We're still a fair way away from that! We're growing steadily, but not at the same rate that "give it away free and work out how to monetize it later" services do. Worth it for having a sound business model and no venture capital breathing down our necks to turn evil though.