I've run and invested in businesses in multiple countries (Spain, Germany, US, UAE, Sri Lanka). One of them (Mobile Jazz - a fully remote company) we've moved to Estonia in 2016. One of the best business decisions we've made admin-wise. While there are for sure better alternatives when it comes to "saving on taxes" (I'd say Estonia is in the European average with 20% corporate tax and an interesting taxation model on…
Would you recommend Estonia for setting up a freelancing business -- as in establishing a legal entity for self-employment?
Estonia is running its country like a tech company
101–110 of 203 posts
Re: Estonia is running its country like a tech company
#102Earlier quoted context omitted.
> America is very backwards in tech for daily life. About 2 years ago I was blown away when I arrived at the San Francisco airport and had to buy a train card with a Visa card; the customer service guy got flustered and pulled an old carbon paper swiper thing out from under the desk, and asked for my signature. America is very backwards because of one thing that happened to you that has literally never happened to me…
Cheques haven't even existed for 15+ years here in Ireland. America is quite slow on the uptake of tech considering they are arguably the most disruptive innovators in the world as a country.
Still, while checks may still be a thing they're pretty rare and rarely required. Mobile and contactless payment is pretty common (outside the food service industry, but I blame the food service industry for that).
Re: Estonia is running its country like a tech company
#103And, after four years, I have reopened my company in UK and trying to liquidate my Estonian one (today I have received a denial letter which says that only Estonian citizen can close my company)..
In short: Vague frequently changing rules, introduction of strange complex regulations over time (e.g. contact person, management board member tax which is kinda avoidable or not at the same time - "Schrodinger tax").. Expensive business services and accountants (yes, US and UK are cheaper!), volatile tax rules interpretations.. Lack of googlable good information overall, and local accountants are not that hi level pros in nomadic IT matters at all. Also totally non-cooperative Estonian banks.
Upon all of that, UK manages doing everything without fragile e-card, which, honestly, adds more anxiety over access loss instead of benefits. Has TONS AND TONS of proper official information with tutorials. Generations of good accountants and stable business and tax regulations.
Re: Estonia is running its country like a tech company
#104Earlier quoted context omitted.
Would you recommend Estonia for setting up a freelancing business -- as in establishing a legal entity for self-employment?
From what I've read I would say so, it's super easy with their e-citizenship.
Re: Estonia is running its country like a tech company
#105Earlier quoted context omitted.
I had similar experiences with backwards technology while visiting the US. Buying tickets for the BART or Caltrain is nothing similar to the experience with NS in the Netherlands or even the BVG/MVG in Germany (even if Caltrain nowadays has an app), it feels really antiquated and buggy. Having my card swiped and asking for signatures in receipts at stores, cafés or restaurants is also a thing of the past even in Braz…
Except for the actual card technology issues (which are frustrating, though that glacier is slowly moving), those are all matters of how those transit agencies are run, not issues with the payment system. As for cashless technology, there is significant political backlash to cashless systems. See the efforts by NYC to force businesses to accept cash as payment. I don't think the glacier is going to move much faster u…
I think that was the point of the originator of the thread - the technology is there, it's just not applied properly. It may have improved recently, but when visiting SF for a few weeks in 2013 and 2014 I was left scratching my head about how best to charge my Clipper card for Muni transit. Topping up the credit via the website had a waiting time of 1-2 working days, so if you were trying to catch a tram or bus into the city centre from the outer neighbourhoods, you had to plan ahead for having enough credit, especially when the weekend was coming up. At BART stations it was usually less problematic to charge the cards - assuming the machine worked, which wasn't always the case.
At any rate, the whole thing felt very uncivilised and anachronistic compared to my experiences in much of Europe, Japan, Hong Kong, and Taiwan. (Japan's Pasmo and similar cards require cash for charging and largely don't accept credit cards, but you'd be hard pressed to find anywhere where you'd have to walk more than a block for an opportunity to charge them - or to find an ATM for obtaining the cash you need.)
Re: Estonia is running its country like a tech company
#106Earlier quoted context omitted.
Germany and Estonia have two completely opposing views when it comes to personal information, and the Estonian way is the way to success. OTOH, the issue with USA is the conflict of interest between the public and private sector. Turbotax is a prime example.
As a German, I don't think the issue is with our handling of personal data. The real issue is Kleinstaaterei, a not-quite-translatable word that describes every small administrative entity insisting on doing its own thing and failing to see the bigger picture. What today is Germany used to be about 100 separate nations until 1871, and a still somewhat loose federation until 1918. I think the mentality from that time…
Hmm... France on the contrary comes from an extremely centralised political and cultural model, yet many things (like social security!) and run in a myriad of independent offices compartmented by geographical location (100 départements) and by sub-domain, which do not communicate or share, send the client/citizen to the next one and blame each other for anything.
For a few decades, there has been a move to regionalisation (a pale will to copy German Länder), which make things worse, building another important geographical layer for various things. Depending on the mood of the year, stuff will either depend on departments or regions. Or on the new thing of the 2010's: huge groups of municipalities, almost as large as departments.
But almost all of those get their funding from the state anyway.
If you take minimum welfare for example, it is handled by departments. Why? No idea, it doesn't make any sense. The rules, the amounts are nation-wide. The funding is national: the state gives money to the departments for that task. So you'd think "I should ask the department" for it?". No because the department gives the money it got from the state to the family branch of the social security. Which is nation-wide? Yes, but it is an association of a hundred independent local offices. Each of them being a private law organisation and not public law. While obviously being a public service, which redistributes public funding. Note that in some departments there used to be several different offices for that same role until recently... Of course each department, and each office will develop its own culture of unwritten rules along the years, so the result is you won't be treated equally depending on where you are, whereas the laws are supposed to be the same.
This is all nuts. Sometimes there are historical reasons gone bad. Sometimes it is just some perverse invention.
I mostly gave examples which remain in the same domain. Now just imagine the madness you have to deal with offices from different domains... Also keep in mind while picturing that, that most of the people who work there do not have the smallest interest in having things going smoothly, files closed quickly, job well done and so on; their only happiness comes from bugging customers/citizen or bugging and blaming another service/office; the only way to get something done is to start yelling at them, then miracles happen: in a few minutes (after several months of being bounced here and there for whatever wrong reason) 'lost' files are found, 'necessary' documents are in fact not needed, everything is ready and solved, that's magical. I wish they were corrupted, it would be nicer and easier, but they aren't even. That's just French culture.
Re: Estonia is running its country like a tech company
#107For those interested in opening an e-business in Estonia, please be mindful that due to the 'Tech Company' way in which the government looks to operate, that there is an increasing rate of change in regulations which can impact your business decisions, although major generic areas such as Corporate and Personal tax rate has trended downwards (around 25% in 2004 and 20% now).
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danske_Bank#Danske_Bank_(Finla...
Re: Estonia is running its country like a tech company
#108Re: Estonia is running its country like a tech company
#109I had a pretty intense honeymoon with Estonia, even had a relatively popular blog on e-residency, have visited Estonia twice (great experience btw).. And, after four years, I have reopened my company in UK and trying to liquidate my Estonian one (today I have received a denial letter which says that only Estonian citizen can close my company).. In short: Vague frequently changing rules, introduction of strange comple…
Re: Estonia is running its country like a tech company
#110As a Norwegian I can relate to many things written here. Estonia is clearly ahead of us but this thing of not being the innovator but still using off the shelf technology was something I was forced to reflect upon while living in the US 15 years ago. It was surprising how the country behind so much technology innovation was so bad at using it. It was noticeable both in the private and public sector. It was something…
One fascinating difference between Estonia and Norway is that Norway doesn't have a digital ID card - we instead use a government single sign-on platform for vetted private login provider companies. The vast majority of people use BankID, a login system run by a consortium of most banks. It used to require a cumbersome 2FA device, but for the last 5 years it has also been available as a Sim Toolkit App, so most use t…
And also the newest is SmartID(used by banks), also based on mobile devices, but without requiring a special SIM card.