The benefits of a more asynchronous workplace • Hacker News Board

Re: The benefits of a more asynchronous workplace

#101

Post by chrisweekly » Wed, Oct 16, 2019, 2:12 PM UTC

settsu wrote: post #22

The issue I often have with discussions of remote work vs. on-site, is how much confirmation bias tends to be incorporated into the conclusions made. After about 16 years of on-site work (at various jobs), I did almost 5 years of remote work (for a single company), having just recently returned to an in-office role (despite focusing on landing another remote position, the best opportunity wasn’t.) And, frankly, I fin…

^ This, 100%. It's all about decoupling physical presence from notions of "working" or "interruptible".

I find async comm tools like Slack invaluable for allowing ppl to display their status (eg "DND"), as well as the ability to control notifications -- and to catch up on topics when unable to participate in realtime. These things have immense value, whether you're remote or not.

I'll never forget the experience, some 20 years ago, being on the critical path for an imminent major release, heads-down, working furiously to deliver a mission-critical feature, and enduring a steady stream of shoulder-taps (despite headphones and body language) that made it ~impossible to do my job. Silver lining was, it made it crystal clear to me that I needed to carve out time for "deep work", and empowered me to push for and receive permission to work remotely at a time and in an org where that was a nearly unique exception. I chose to spend about half my working days remote, and across various jobs and companies and industries since, have sought and pushed for and mostly maintained this balance. I'm convinced we'd all be happier and more effective if such a balance were available more broadly.

Re: The benefits of a more asynchronous workplace

#102

Post by BurningFrog » Wed, Oct 16, 2019, 2:12 PM UTC

yodsanklai wrote: post #55

I work remotely. I've noticed that one thing that make me work harder than in an office, is that I feel that I need to earn the trust that my employer gives me. In an office, sometimes I feel that just being there is enough to justify my salary, even if I'm just chatting with colleagues or browsing the web. I discipline myself better when I work remotely. Another thing that makes a difference for me: I suffer from ba…

> On the downside, I suffer from being far from where decisions are taken

And your employer suffers from your lack of input in those decisions.

Re: The benefits of a more asynchronous workplace

#103

Post by silviot » Wed, Oct 16, 2019, 2:12 PM UTC

yodsanklai wrote: post #55

I work remotely. I've noticed that one thing that make me work harder than in an office, is that I feel that I need to earn the trust that my employer gives me. In an office, sometimes I feel that just being there is enough to justify my salary, even if I'm just chatting with colleagues or browsing the web. I discipline myself better when I work remotely. Another thing that makes a difference for me: I suffer from ba…

My personal experience with lying down to work is that it feels good in the short term, but causes problems in the long term (increased pain).

I have no data to back this claim, but I can provide this single data point.

I completely agree with both your other points about trust/discipline and important decisions though.

Re: The benefits of a more asynchronous workplace

#104

Post by kbsletten » Wed, Oct 16, 2019, 2:18 PM UTC

dunkelheit wrote: post #98

I think I am not really well-adapted for async communication. I can't really do "fire and forget" messaging. When I ask something I want the reply to arrive as quickly as possible because I don't want to lose the context that I have in my mind right now and load it again later when I receive a reply. On an async channel this results in compulsive checking for replies which of course kills productivity. Almost-sync ch…

Nobody is adapted to asynchronous communication, it's always going to make you less productive. The key is that your immediate request is forcing someone else to put down their thing to help you, the same way that other people interrupt you when they message you. In optimizing for team performance, we don't get individual maximums.

Mostly, try to reduce switchyness. Not all input is blocking, sometimes you can put a question out early and have hours/ days/ weeks before you need an answer. Work on identifying potential hangups early and often. Try to handle your communication in batches. Respond to urgent messages faster, but spend time between deep tasks or in the lame duck part of the day doing email.

Re: The benefits of a more asynchronous workplace

#105

Post by thisisnico » Wed, Oct 16, 2019, 2:19 PM UTC

silviot wrote: post #103

yodsanklai wrote: post #55

I work remotely. I've noticed that one thing that make me work harder than in an office, is that I feel that I need to earn the trust that my employer gives me. In an office, sometimes I feel that just being there is enough to justify my salary, even if I'm just chatting with colleagues or browsing the web. I discipline myself better when I work remotely. Another thing that makes a difference for me: I suffer from ba…

My personal experience with lying down to work is that it feels good in the short term, but causes problems in the long term (increased pain). I have no data to back this claim, but I can provide this single data point. I completely agree with both your other points about trust/discipline and important decisions though.

I believe there are many studies, even posted here that lying down < Sitting < Standing < Walking. Lying down for long periods of time is worse for you. (sleeping excluded). Less activity with the body = worse for the body.

Re: The benefits of a more asynchronous workplace

#106

Post by greenshackle2 » Wed, Oct 16, 2019, 2:20 PM UTC

Tade0 wrote: post #8

Except for the occasional visit to the office to give a few high fives and have some chit-chat I work remotely. Until recently we used Toggl to track work time and the guidance was to have "6h of focused work daily". I'm managing 5h 15min-ish, but only when working remotely. When I'm in the office that number organically drops to around 3h 40min. Only person really doing those hours(and above) is one guy who's not in…

That is roughly consistent with my experience.

When I was using the "pomodoro" technique, I first started with the goal of 14 pomodoros per day (14 x 25min of focused work). My (fairly successful) friend who had done pomodoro told me that was not a reasonable goal. 10-12 seems a more reasonable goal for most people.

When doing focused reading in grad school I could do maybe 8-9 hours on a good day.

Working on a personal project I enjoy at home, I can do maybe 7-8 hours of focused coding in a day (but probably not multiple days in a row).

At work I probably do 4 hours of focused coding on average. This is partly because of non-coding tasks, but also my attention tends to peter out beyond 4.5 hours.

Re: The benefits of a more asynchronous workplace

#107

Post by chrisweekly » Wed, Oct 16, 2019, 2:21 PM UTC

cbzbc wrote: post #67

mkolodny wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While "remote workers are more productive" is in the article's title, I disagree that the author is suggesting that working remotely is a necessary part of the solution. The article's subtitle is "Async isn’t just for remote teams". I think the post makes it clear to that office workers could benefit a ton from async communication. And I agree completely. Sync communication at my previous job was such a drain on my p…

Slack can be used as a asynchronous mechanism - but too many teams develop into using direct IMs/convos as a preferred communications style.

Yeah, cultural norms are what matter here (vs the tool per se).

Slack usage covers the whole gamut, from one extreme [proper (ie, consistent) use of channels, status / DND, and notification settings, making it a very effective, developer-friendly and management-helping async-oriented system] to the other [flowstate-killing, nonsense-generating chaos of interrupts and noise].

Re: The benefits of a more asynchronous workplace

#108

Post by damontal » Wed, Oct 16, 2019, 2:27 PM UTC

dunkelheit wrote: post #98

I think I am not really well-adapted for async communication. I can't really do "fire and forget" messaging. When I ask something I want the reply to arrive as quickly as possible because I don't want to lose the context that I have in my mind right now and load it again later when I receive a reply. On an async channel this results in compulsive checking for replies which of course kills productivity. Almost-sync ch…

i have a personal kanban type page in ms onenote. one section is Waiting For... where I add things I'm waiting for like responses to questions I've emailed out. I can scan that in the morning to see who hasn't responded to what questions and send out follow ups or schedule calls, etc

Re: The benefits of a more asynchronous workplace

#109

Post by wool_gather » Wed, Oct 16, 2019, 2:30 PM UTC

gm wrote: post #97

mewpmewp wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you know people expect you to answer immediately? I haven't noticed that expectation.

They ask questions which imply "I'm sitting on my hands until you answer me".

Not to put too fine a point on it, but if that's happening to the same person(s) all the time, they need to find a different solution than expecting you to immediately bail them out on request.

Re: The benefits of a more asynchronous workplace

#110

Post by zarro » Wed, Oct 16, 2019, 2:32 PM UTC

The reason people don't like remote workers by instinct isn't because they don't realize that they people COULD be more productive at home.

Its because they worry that it creates incentives that could lead to a decrease in productivity over time.

I think the root of it really is the first line Management. These guys need to be really good at their job in order for WFH FT to be more productive. If these aren't all that efficient to begin with, that will make it much more visible in a WFH situation. I think all parties intuitively feel this.