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System76 Will Ship Linux Laptops With Coreboot-Based Open-Source Firmware

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Re: System76 Will Ship Linux Laptops With Coreboot-Based Open-Source Firmware

#101

Post by rossdavidh »

albertzeyer wrote: post #56

Recently there was a discussion about Huawei MateBook X Pro, which also seems to be a great Linux notebook: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21170765 In that discussion, several other good Linux notebooks were also discussed, including System 76. But it was reported there that the quality is quite bad: > but the quality is reportedly bad (flaky hardware, too-fast power drain, reflash bios to toggle discrete graph…

I'm typing this on my second System76 laptop, and my first one (which is still running, in retirement as the home entertainment system) lasted over 5 years as my principal. So, something like 6-7 years of System76 as my principal laptop, and no issues of that sort or any other.

Re: System76 Will Ship Linux Laptops With Coreboot-Based Open-Source Firmware

#102

Post by imglorp »

hlandau wrote: post #71
jackpot51 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The laptops which we will be delivering with open firmware will require the FSP and Intel ME, with the Intel GOP driver being an optional component to enable graphics acceleration in UEFI. The ME is disabled by way of a HECI message early in the boot process, so there are no runtime ME components similar to using the HAP bit on older ME versions. I will get https://www.coreboot.org/users.html updated as soon as possi…

This "disablement" is rather meaningless/misleading. The proprietary ME firmware is instrumental in the boot process and part of the chain of trust. Any 'disablement' of it (really, just a message sent to the ME firmware asking it politely to stop doing anything) after booting is after the horse has bolted.

I wonder if there's a hardware method to disable ME, something involving the processor lines on the motherboard, before it even gets powered on?

Re: System76 Will Ship Linux Laptops With Coreboot-Based Open-Source Firmware

#103

Post by lliamander »

yellowapple wrote: post #43
jdright wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why no AMD CPUs? I just don't buy anything Intel and I'm for some time looking at System76, but each time I go build a setup I remember why I gave up the last time around. Also, with the price difference between the two it would be a more interesting hardware using this difference to acquire more RAM.

Relatedly: why no AMD GPUs? AMD's much more cooperative with Linux than Nvidia is or probably ever will be at this rate, and performance is great even with the FOSS drivers (as I've observed on both my Dell Precision 7510 and the Threadripper + Radeon rig I built about a year ago). Like, it's kinda maddening that "the" household name in Linux laptops (if there is such a thing) has zero laptops with an AMD GPU as an o…

Are the mobile AMD GPU options all that great? The RX 5500M that's coming out soon looks interesting.

The reasons for going with Nvidia are:

  * Nvidia is more power efficient. This is really critical for mobile devices
  * Nvidia has CUDA, which is important for (among other things) folks that use machine learning frameworks
  * System76 has put in work to make using Nvidia GPUs more seamless on Linux (pre-installing the drivers, etc.)
Zen 2 really gave AMD the power-efficiency over Intel. Intel's 10nm is still largely absent from the market, and even then I'm not sure how much more efficient the 10nm process is.

I don't think the same can be said for Navi vs. Nvidia's architecture. Also, Nvidia is working on their own 7nm based GPUs.

Re: System76 Will Ship Linux Laptops With Coreboot-Based Open-Source Firmware

#104

Post by SirensOfTitan »

I spent a lot of time deliberating on what to replace my 13” MBP with. The idea of more open hardware is attractive, but both system76 and purism fell short (mainly battery life)

I ended up going with a Lenovo x1 carbón extreme and threw ArchLinux on it. The trackpad is worse, and battery life isn’t quite as good (I feel like I can optimize this, but haven’t had the chance yet), but it’s such a capable machine. I feel quite happy with it.

Re: System76 Will Ship Linux Laptops With Coreboot-Based Open-Source Firmware

#105

Post by pgeorgi »

jay_kyburz wrote: post #93
pram wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't make the hardware, all their laptops are rebadges of Clevo/Sager https://www.sagernotebook.com/Notebook-NP8454.html

I bought a Clevo rebadge called a Metabox here in Australia and have all kinds of problems with it. Keys that stick down, headphone jack busted, one of the USB not working, a few other things. I never sent it back on warranty because I would have to buy a new machine to work on while it was away anyhow. I'll just put up with the problems until the next upgrade cycle. It sits on my desk now with an external keyboard,…

I haven't worked with Clevo, but apparently they provide quite some flexibility. A vendor can use their own choice of keyboard, extra buttons, ports placements, hinges, ...

I guess Clevo would even be up to designing a new PCB around a different CPU by a different vendor, but "use this type of keyboard" will be much cheaper to commission than "swap out the CPU vendor".

So I'd expect keyboard issues to be more up to Metabox choosing the cheapest option for that part, rather than a systemic Clevo failure.

Re: System76 Will Ship Linux Laptops With Coreboot-Based Open-Source Firmware

#106

Post by yellowapple »

throwaway2048 wrote: post #83
yellowapple wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Atheros chipsets tend to not require any non-free code (be it on the driver or firmware side), including their USB wifi dongles. I've had mediocre (at best) experiences with them, however, what with frequent stability and signal strength issues on what I'm pretty sure to be the hardware side (though I've found this is true of pretty much every wifi chipset out there, so I guess it's okay relatively-speaking).

This used to be true, but since Qualcomm bought them out, they have done a complete 180 and basically reverted to totally closed designs (closed firmware, closed drivers, no spec sheet). The 9xxx chip-sets (which are only 802.11n) are the last ones designed before Qualcomm took over, the 10xxx chip-sets (802.11AC+) are closed and completely locked down, you cant even change your MAC address its all stuffed into a gia…

Well that sucks.

Re: System76 Will Ship Linux Laptops With Coreboot-Based Open-Source Firmware

#107

Post by pgeorgi »

SirensOfTitan wrote: post #104

I spent a lot of time deliberating on what to replace my 13” MBP with. The idea of more open hardware is attractive, but both system76 and purism fell short (mainly battery life) I ended up going with a Lenovo x1 carbón extreme and threw ArchLinux on it. The trackpad is worse, and battery life isn’t quite as good (I feel like I can optimize this, but haven’t had the chance yet), but it’s such a capable machine. I fee…

> battery life isn’t quite as good

powertop --auto-tune is a good first start in my experience.

Re: System76 Will Ship Linux Laptops With Coreboot-Based Open-Source Firmware

#108

Post by jdhawk »

rsync wrote: post #16

I would love to buy an open, linux-based laptop to replace my aging 11" MBA but these are huge laptops - the smallest has a 14" screen. Should I be looking at the Pinebook 11" ?

install linux on the MBA? Its kept my 2011 13" alive and kicking

Re: System76 Will Ship Linux Laptops With Coreboot-Based Open-Source Firmware

#109

Post by isantop »

imglorp wrote: post #102
hlandau wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This "disablement" is rather meaningless/misleading. The proprietary ME firmware is instrumental in the boot process and part of the chain of trust. Any 'disablement' of it (really, just a message sent to the ME firmware asking it politely to stop doing anything) after booting is after the horse has bolted.

I wonder if there's a hardware method to disable ME, something involving the processor lines on the motherboard, before it even gets powered on?

The ME is partly responsible for powering up the main CPU. That kind of thing wouldn't be possible without a reimplementation of the ME from the start.

Re: System76 Will Ship Linux Laptops With Coreboot-Based Open-Source Firmware

#110

Post by wtallis »

shmerl wrote: post #73
hlandau wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Intel is equally blobby (FSP, ME).

Works with coreboot though somehow. AGESA prevents it as far as I know, since it does some stuff that coreboot has to be doing. I'm not that familiar with details, may be some coreboot experts can comment.

You might be mistaking coreboot for libreboot, the coreboot fork that rejects all proprietary blobs.
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