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Drilling open a smart door lock in 4 seconds

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Re: Drilling open a smart door lock in 4 seconds

#101

Post by Cthulhu_ »

GreenJelloShot wrote: post #8

Isn't the point of a lock just to keep honest people honest? I mean you can buy the world's sturdiest, more secure lock and attach it to the world's strongest door, someone with a hammer can easily break a window. If someone is determined and willing, there really is nothing you can do to stop them from breaking into your house.

Yup; I think an important aspect to look out for with locks is whether or not you have to damage / destroy them to get in, because if they do then you have evidence of a break-in meaning the insurance company will pay out. If you have a burglary (for example) done by shims or lockpicks they can claim fraud / no evidence of a break-in and not pay out.

I'd even go as far to say that for burglars it's important to leave traces of a break-in so that the victim can claim insurance.

Re: Drilling open a smart door lock in 4 seconds

#102

Post by unixhero »

ownagefool wrote: post #100
jpalomaki wrote: post #4

Slightly related to this, the Lock Picking Lawyer on Youtube has number of videos where he tries a Ramset gun [1] against different padlocks. For example: https://youtu.be/Wimo09WV-rY This was interesting as it was an attack that certainly would not have crossed my mind. Would be interesting to see how other types of locks would do against this kind of tool. [1] https://www.homedepot.com/p/Ramset-MasterShot-0-22-Cali…

That looked like a pretty heavy duty lock, but as a kid I learned that a hammer or smashing a lock against the ground works most of the time. In something like a shipping container the actual lock is shielded away from these types of attacks by the container itself.

Yes, but according to LockpickingLawyer they are still vulnerable to prybar-leverage attacks.

Re: Drilling open a smart door lock in 4 seconds

#103

Post by mulmen »

Zancarius wrote: post #78
jpalomaki wrote: post #4

Slightly related to this, the Lock Picking Lawyer on Youtube has number of videos where he tries a Ramset gun [1] against different padlocks. For example: https://youtu.be/Wimo09WV-rY This was interesting as it was an attack that certainly would not have crossed my mind. Would be interesting to see how other types of locks would do against this kind of tool. [1] https://www.homedepot.com/p/Ramset-MasterShot-0-22-Cali…

His magnetic attack[1] on a common commercial lock that's no longer in use was entertaining too. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCay5ek_cW0

The lock is still in use but the vulnerability has been fixed in newer models and older models can be fixed by a part kit.

Re: Drilling open a smart door lock in 4 seconds

#104

Post by dual_basis »

floatingatoll wrote: post #19
GreenJelloShot wrote: post #8

Isn't the point of a lock just to keep honest people honest? I mean you can buy the world's sturdiest, more secure lock and attach it to the world's strongest door, someone with a hammer can easily break a window. If someone is determined and willing, there really is nothing you can do to stop them from breaking into your house.

A primary point of a lock is to keep people from acting impulsively. Consider these scenarios, ordered by decreasing likelihood of "yes, you would peek your head in" — or "yes, you would slip in and steal something": If your neighbor leaves their door open, do you peek your head in out of curiosity? If your neighbor leaves their door unlocked, do you open the door and peek your head in out of curiosity? If your neigh…

If the door is open and that is an unusual occurance, sure, I would knock on the door frame and call out to make sure they are alright / didn't forget to close the door, etc. For every other situation, no, I wouldn't.

Re: Drilling open a smart door lock in 4 seconds

#105

Post by gonzo41 »

unixhero wrote: post #102
ownagefool wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That looked like a pretty heavy duty lock, but as a kid I learned that a hammer or smashing a lock against the ground works most of the time. In something like a shipping container the actual lock is shielded away from these types of attacks by the container itself.

Yes, but according to LockpickingLawyer they are still vulnerable to prybar-leverage attacks.

I have to tip my hat to LockpickingLawyer for introducing me to hydraulic bolt cutters. The perfect solution to the noisy angle grinder.

Re: Drilling open a smart door lock in 4 seconds

#106

Post by beobab »

JohnFen wrote: post #12
GreenJelloShot wrote: post #8

Isn't the point of a lock just to keep honest people honest? I mean you can buy the world's sturdiest, more secure lock and attach it to the world's strongest door, someone with a hammer can easily break a window. If someone is determined and willing, there really is nothing you can do to stop them from breaking into your house.

> Isn't the point of a lock just to keep honest people honest? No. Honest people don't need to be "kept honest". Locks have the same purpose as other security systems (including electronic ones like crypto, etc.). They aren't intended to (and can't) keep a determined attacker out. What they do is increase the cost (in terms of time, effort, risk, etc.) of gaining access. The point is -- as far as possible -- to make…

Honest people do need to be kept honest. Even the most saintly can be tempted.

If you found a twenty on the floor in an abandoned alleyway, would you hand it in to police, or would you steal that money?

If your first thought was "It's not stealing for such a small amount", or "It's clearly been abandoned, so it's ok to take it", then you're the target audience for being kept honest.

Your other point is spot on: the aim is to increase the friction of entry and raise a mental barrier in the mind of the subject which results in an outcome you would prefer (no break-in).

Re: Drilling open a smart door lock in 4 seconds

#107

Post by freeflight »

csomar wrote: post #79
culturestate wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think they’re suggesting that everyone on earth has purposefully become a thief at one point, but that sometimes it just happens. I’ve definitely walked out of a supermarket with a bottle of water that I picked up while shopping and forgot to pay for - I still stole it, even if unintentionally.

> I’ve definitely walked out of a supermarket with a bottle of water that I picked up while shopping and forgot to pay for - I still stole it, even if unintentionally. You only steal it if you realize it and don't return back to pay. Happened with me a few times, the cashiers will really appreciate it.

Does that also apply when the cashier gives you too much/not enough return cash?

A while ago my to-go order from McD somehow included an extra cheeseburger.

Was that maybe a "present" by the company to a loyal customer? Should I have gone back and paid for a cheeseburger I never ordered? But if I give it back to them, they would just throw it in the trash anyway because they can't sell it to another customer.

Re: Drilling open a smart door lock in 4 seconds

#108

Post by freeflight »

djmips wrote: post #95
nextlevelwizard wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>That's true of most locks in existence. Freaking American's and their "inward opening doors". Good luck kicking in any door in civilized countries in which doors open outwards.

Inward opening doors are also less safe when a bunch of people have to escape quickly.

Afaik outwards opening doors are more of an Asian thing, in Eastern Europe, it's a bit mixed but in most of Western Europe it's pretty much all inward opening.

Re: Drilling open a smart door lock in 4 seconds

#109

Post by chrisseaton »

ryanmarsh wrote: post #50
shartshooter wrote: post #41

Easier way to open a smart door lock in 3 seconds...use a hooligan tool[1]. For $150 USD a SWAT team(or someone who practices for a few hours) can be in your room in no time. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halligan_bar

Yes. The truth is most (and I mean nearly all) residential door frames snap like a match stick with a hooligan tool. In a previous life I kicked in doors for a living. I don’t give a fuck how cool your dead bolt is. I could be in your face before you were out of bed. If you want to keep out lazy thieves any lock will do. If you’re preventing against a dynamic entry you need trip wires, man traps, metal door frames, a…

This isn't true - modern standard domestic polycarbonate and metal composite doors and frames with locks that engage all the way up are a real problem for the police as they're extremely hard to get through even with repeated blows from a battering ram. There is absolutely no chance whatsoever that you can kick in a modern door. You will break your leg first.

Re: Drilling open a smart door lock in 4 seconds

#110

Post by 2rsf »

onion2k wrote: post #66
nomel wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I broke a window with a pebble when I was a kid. Most people have windows. Something like an extra sticky vinyl sticker takes care of the noise problem.

That wouldn't work on a double glazed window.

you mean laminated glass ?
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