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Google Employees Explain How They Were Retaliated Against for Reporting Abuse

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Re: Google Employees Explain How They Were Retaliated Against for Reporting Abuse

#101

Post by i_am_nomad »

reccanti wrote: post #92
jm4 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a complaint from someone who doesn't understand the function of HR. HR isn't there to protect the employee. They are there to protect the company while giving the impression they are there for the employees. Sometimes that means they protect both at the same time. It always means they operate in the company's interests, sometimes to the detriment of an employee or employees. A lot of what I hear about google s…

> In normal companies, people get moved around, demoted or ignored all the time and they don’t always blame it on retaliation for political beliefs or for reporting abuse. They blame it on some asshole manager or decide the company isn’t for them and move on. Even if what you’re describing is normal corporate behavior, it’s still not great. Maybe we shouldn’t be so quick to accept the idea of “asshole managers” or to…

I believe the OP means that the people who are demoted/reassigned blame it on “asshole managers,” not that the managers are in fact asshole. The reality is, in any organization, you’ll have people who are incompetent, and people who are simply unwilling to do their jobs.

Re: Google Employees Explain How They Were Retaliated Against for Reporting Abuse

#102

Post by claudeganon »

wolco wrote: post #95
hardlianotion wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Possibly: recognise a union.

Honestly at the highest paid tech company in the world a union isn't the answer. They need to hire people that fit their culture better or change their culture to match their people.

Many of the highest paid industries (professional athletes, entertainment) are unionized, so I fail to see what’s special about Google/tech. All this talk about “culture” is just intended to prevent workers from joining together and having an actual say in the companies for which they make so much money.

Re: Google Employees Explain How They Were Retaliated Against for Reporting Abuse

#103

Post by krageon »

ExtremePopcorn wrote: post #58
dvt wrote: post #20

HR is not your friend and HR will never be your friend. In a post-2008 world, it baffles me that people still think that somewhere, deep-down, multi-billion dollar conglomerates have employees' best interests at heart. How quickly we forgot people losing their lifelong savings and entire pension funds going bust. Only to have the government bail out the exact same charlatans that dropped the ball in the first place.…

Don't be baffled! No one thinks this. Everyone has seen a variation of this comment a million times by now, and everyone knows it, but companies will never be able to admit it. It's all about putting stress on the lie. If a corp won't solve its issues and employees quit because of it, "well duh of course they're gonna protect stakeholders' interest" isn't really helpful or new.

If my colleagues are anything to go by, almost everyone thinks this.

Re: Google Employees Explain How They Were Retaliated Against for Reporting Abuse

#104

Post by TallGuyShort »

hardlianotion wrote: post #66
dlp211 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If only there was some way that employees could create their own organization that can act as an alternative resources to the companies HR department that puts the employees interests ahead if the companies.

It was only last week on twitter I read a well known tweeter and company owner saying he didn't see the point of unions in software companies.

You have to admit that at least in the Valley, the mobility between companies has done a phenomenal amount to up monetary and non- benefits for employees and help people escape any situation that don't particularly care for. A lot of that started with Google. Several of these articles even mention that they came to Google expecting better - this is a relatively recent blemish on their reputation. For a unionized industry to treat employees they way Silicon Valley does and have the absolute biggest companies occasionally make the news for stuff like this would be pretty impressive. I mean the local teachers and oil workers where I live have unions and deal with shit WAYY worse than this still.

Re: Google Employees Explain How They Were Retaliated Against for Reporting Abuse

#105

Post by TallGuyShort »

AstralStorm wrote: post #98
tomnipotent wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Going to HR is always a wrong move. Get a lawyer. This is horrible advice. Going to HR is about leaving a paper trail, which is very important. No judge or arbitrator is going to give two hoots about i-said/they-said without (dated) documentation to back it up.

HR is not obligated to keep any paper trail, but if you went there, they can be made to testify under oath.

Victims are best off if they can keep their own paper trail - ideally using personal lines of communication or printing them immediately so the company can't "lose" them. As I mentioned in another comment, even IM'ing a fellow employee a casual comment along the lines of "didn't that bother you when the boss used the N-word" or something. Their response likely confirms that it happened. Casual chat to your HRBP in the hallway? Follow up with an email clarifying the important points. May sound awkward if you haven't before, but it's common: just prefacing it with, "I just wanted to make sure we're on the same page about where we left things: ".

In an HN discussion about dealing with medical billing / insurance people who screw you over, it was recommend to keep meticulous notes of everything, and that reading back specific dates and names of people you spoke to who contradicted the person you're speaking to now got people to take you seriously and fix their mistakes real quick. I have since found that to be true.

Re: Google Employees Explain How They Were Retaliated Against for Reporting Abuse

#106

Post by vageli »

dominotw wrote: post #26
trenning wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you ever want to proceed with legal actions against the company then you have to put it into record somewhere which typically means reporting incidents to HR. Which ultimately leads to getting fired. What else are people supposed to do? It's a shitty unwinnable situation for employees, I've been on the shit end of this stick before at a different tech co for complaining and was retaliated against. It's not fun and…

> If you ever want to proceed with legal actions against the company then you have to put it into record somewhere which typically means reporting incidents to HR. This is not true. You don't have to record anything with HR for legal action. Its not a prerequisite by any means. Going to HR is always a wrong move. Get a lawyer.

If you don't raise it to the company, how can you later prove they enabled this kind of workplace (or failed to remediate) if it was never raised to be addressed?

Re: Google Employees Explain How They Were Retaliated Against for Reporting Abuse

#107

Post by Nasrudith »

claudeganon wrote: post #102
wolco wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly at the highest paid tech company in the world a union isn't the answer. They need to hire people that fit their culture better or change their culture to match their people.

Many of the highest paid industries (professional athletes, entertainment) are unionized, so I fail to see what’s special about Google/tech. All this talk about “culture” is just intended to prevent workers from joining together and having an actual say in the companies for which they make so much money.

There is some culture elements in there even if the cynical reasons are the same - those other higher paying occupations are require working with people instead of their products. The dynamics change. Actors need to work with directors and any other actors in scenes. A union's arbitration there appeals as protection for the workers from each other. Workers would agree that they don't want to have to work with a guy who regulary assaults them for instance. A very reasonable case.

This structure like most tools also has a dark use. Not as a "is bad" but "not automatically good". It could be used to perpetuate discrimination as the members don't want those working in . As common for bigotry it is not a good move for long term health.

Anyway the sociality seems to be an underemphasised factor to unions. This isn't to say that the non people-to-people jobs should never unionize just that it is especially artifical like say the practice of putting rubber duck covering a fence post point - it is harder to set up and maintain as norm when the first question everyone asks is "Why bother with the duck?"

As far as I am aware there are no serious scientest unions - doctors boards are the closest thing but there are many significant differences.

Re: Google Employees Explain How They Were Retaliated Against for Reporting Abuse

#108

Post by claudeganon »

Nasrudith wrote: post #107
claudeganon wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many of the highest paid industries (professional athletes, entertainment) are unionized, so I fail to see what’s special about Google/tech. All this talk about “culture” is just intended to prevent workers from joining together and having an actual say in the companies for which they make so much money.

There is some culture elements in there even if the cynical reasons are the same - those other higher paying occupations are require working with people instead of their products. The dynamics change. Actors need to work with directors and any other actors in scenes. A union's arbitration there appeals as protection for the workers from each other. Workers would agree that they don't want to have to work with a guy w…

Most scientists in academic institutions in the US belong to faculty unions that negotiate on their behalf. If you want to split hairs about whether this constitutes a “scientist union,” feel free, but the larger point that scientists are largely non-union does not seem to bear scrutiny. In addition, Australia has a scientist trade union: http://www.professionalsaustralia.org.au/scientists/

Re: Google Employees Explain How They Were Retaliated Against for Reporting Abuse

#109

Post by tomnipotent »

AstralStorm wrote: post #98
tomnipotent wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Going to HR is always a wrong move. Get a lawyer. This is horrible advice. Going to HR is about leaving a paper trail, which is very important. No judge or arbitrator is going to give two hoots about i-said/they-said without (dated) documentation to back it up.

HR is not obligated to keep any paper trail, but if you went there, they can be made to testify under oath.

Of course HR is not obligated. That's the whole problem in the first place.

You're responsible for keeping your own paper trail.

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