Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Thomas Cook collapses, stranding 150k UK holidaymakers

theguardian.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 285 posts

Re: Thomas Cook collapses, stranding 150k UK holidaymakers

#101

Post by buboard »

PhilWright wrote: post #26

Why do these travel companies always go bust in a way that leaves people stranded? Surely the management must have known a week or two ago that the company was about to go under. In that case, stop anyone flying out but still bring people back. By the time they actually cease trading there should be few people left abroad. Some managers in Thomas Cook must have known that people flying out were going to end up strand…

This didn't come out of the blue. Thomas Cook is known to have problems for years and an impending collapse has been rumoured since months ago. Why did all these traveleres choose them is a better question

Re: Thomas Cook collapses, stranding 150k UK holidaymakers

#102

Post by why-oh-why »

onion2k wrote: post #73
Scarblac wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ideally a gift should show that you know the other person well enough to pick just the right thing for them. Money is the other extreme, it says "I really have no idea what kind of gift you'd like", so apparently you hardly know each other. Gift cards are at least a small step up, you show you think the other likes to travel.

Cash with a note saying "For you to enjoy in " then.

That reminds me of my grandma, she used to hand me money “for you to buy some X”

I should give her a call.

Re: Thomas Cook collapses, stranding 150k UK holidaymakers

#103

Post by tialaramex »

arthurfm wrote: post #46
FartyMcFarter wrote: post #43

> Customers at a hotel in Tunisia reported being locked in by security guards as the hotel demanded extra money, fearing it would not be paid by Thomas Cook. This is quite bad behaviour from the hotel. Presumably their business relationship is with Thomas Cook, not the people on holidays? They went as far as grabbing people who jumped a wall in an attempt to get out! More details here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-4…

The Guardian article mentions that hotels have to wait up to 3 months to be paid by the holiday company. I can see why the Tunisian hotel did what they did, but you are correct that their business relationship is with Thomas Cook, not the holidaymakers. Meanwhile, Thomas Cook holidaymakers were anxious that they might be evicted from their hotels or charged again for their holidays. Holiday companies do not normally…

> The Guardian article mentions that hotels have to wait up to 3 months to be paid by the holiday company.

Ninety day terms are very common in most B2B industries. Large companies quickly learn that their suppliers are dependant on them to stay in business and can be abused almost at will. So nominally "90 day" terms claiming you have 90 days to pay become "We definitely won't pay until 90 days after you bill us" and then "We typically pay in the working week after 90 days is due" and then "We only run routine bill payments on the third Wednesday of a month, so it can be up to 120 days I guess you got unlucky" and next thing you know the work you did in April is only paid for in October by a company that you know is already on the verge of bankruptcy but if you don't do that work they'll cut you off completely. It's crazy but that's how it is.

The EU says if in practice you don't pay on or before 90 days you owe interest at a calculated rate on the due amount. But most small suppliers are so in thrall to the huge company they supply that they won't even ask for that money.

Re: Thomas Cook collapses, stranding 150k UK holidaymakers

#104

Post by sprafa »

rwmj wrote: post #75

I guess as they've gone bust I can tell this story now ... I used to consult for Thomas Cook about 15 years ago, and they were a basketcase of a company even back them, so this doesn't surprise me. I feel sorry for all the reps and workers out in the field and on the planes who will lose their jobs because of the profligacy of the Peterborough head office. Two examples of stupidity stick with me. One was that at the…

Most British companies I’ve seen operating appear to be an absolute mess from the inside. It’s funny that the British have the Northern European credibility in business but I don’t think they’re anywhere close as efficient or organised as the Germans or the Dutch. This is just personal experience but I’ve come to realise it seems to be the norm that British management is overall terrible.

Re: Thomas Cook collapses, stranding 150k UK holidaymakers

#105

Post by DoreenMichele »

tialaramex wrote: post #103
arthurfm wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Guardian article mentions that hotels have to wait up to 3 months to be paid by the holiday company. I can see why the Tunisian hotel did what they did, but you are correct that their business relationship is with Thomas Cook, not the holidaymakers. Meanwhile, Thomas Cook holidaymakers were anxious that they might be evicted from their hotels or charged again for their holidays. Holiday companies do not normally…

> The Guardian article mentions that hotels have to wait up to 3 months to be paid by the holiday company. Ninety day terms are very common in most B2B industries. Large companies quickly learn that their suppliers are dependant on them to stay in business and can be abused almost at will. So nominally "90 day" terms claiming you have 90 days to pay become "We definitely won't pay until 90 days after you bill us" and…

But most small suppliers are so in thrall to the huge company they supply that they won't even ask for that money.

I wish I had kept track of all the examples of this I've read about. It's basically standard practice for big companies to be financially abusive to small companies they work with. It's rampant.

It also seems to be something every small company has to learn the hard way on their own because it doesn't get talked about enough.

Small companies routinely think they've got it made in the shade if they can land a single big account. Reality is more like Darth Vader saying "We have altered the bargain. Pray we don't alter it further."

Re: Thomas Cook collapses, stranding 150k UK holidaymakers

#106

Post by billpg »

andrewstuart wrote: post #2

Is this brexit related?

It hasn't helped. The fall in the value of the pound caused by Brexit has made their service significantly more expensive.

Thomas Cook might have been able to position itself, in the internet era, as a local trustworthy service that takes away the uncertainty of buying from unknown overseas services. The increased costs caused by Brexit only made a difficult market more difficult.

Re: Thomas Cook collapses, stranding 150k UK holidaymakers

#107

Post by bshimmin »

buboard wrote: post #101
PhilWright wrote: post #26

Why do these travel companies always go bust in a way that leaves people stranded? Surely the management must have known a week or two ago that the company was about to go under. In that case, stop anyone flying out but still bring people back. By the time they actually cease trading there should be few people left abroad. Some managers in Thomas Cook must have known that people flying out were going to end up strand…

This didn't come out of the blue. Thomas Cook is known to have problems for years and an impending collapse has been rumoured since months ago. Why did all these traveleres choose them is a better question

Because people often book holidays six months or more in advance, and Thomas Cook's financial woes weren't especially big news back then.

Re: Thomas Cook collapses, stranding 150k UK holidaymakers

#108

Post by droithomme »

beaker52 wrote: post #80

It's always blown my mind that companies like this will operate not having enough cash on hand to actually provide the services they've sold. Maybe that's why they're in business and I'm not.

> not having enough cash on hand to actually provide the services they've sold

The article mentions that one of the issues here is that the credit card companies saw that collapse was imminent and certain and thus refused to release the funds charged by their customers to Cook, knowing that Cook would collapse, the customers wouldn't get their full holiday, would do a chargeback, but the bank wouldn't be able to get the funds back from Cook.

> "The tour operator is understood to have made a number of proposals, including ... for credit card companies to release about £50m of cash they are holding as collateral against Thomas Cook bookings."

So maybe they did have enough cash on hand in a way, but the banks weren't releasing it to them.

Another intractable and perhaps the main problem was their massive debt service owed on their previous bailout. Kind of similar to Toys R Us and other companies that have had a bailout of one form or another that leads to massive debt and debt payments taken on and beyond the ability of the company's profits to pay off.

Re: Thomas Cook collapses, stranding 150k UK holidaymakers

#109

Post by billpg »

greglindahl wrote: post #24
stupendousyappi wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The exchange rate decline was likely the biggest Brexit-related factor.

... they should have hedged it for the packages people had actually purchased. That's what currency hedges are for. Prices going up do decrease sales, of course.

A company with margins cut to the bone in the internet era should have spent money they don't have, just in case the UK government does something stupid that causes the currency to tank?

Re: Thomas Cook collapses, stranding 150k UK holidaymakers

#110

Post by edf13 »

sprafa wrote: post #104
rwmj wrote: post #75

I guess as they've gone bust I can tell this story now ... I used to consult for Thomas Cook about 15 years ago, and they were a basketcase of a company even back them, so this doesn't surprise me. I feel sorry for all the reps and workers out in the field and on the planes who will lose their jobs because of the profligacy of the Peterborough head office. Two examples of stupidity stick with me. One was that at the…

Most British companies I’ve seen operating appear to be an absolute mess from the inside. It’s funny that the British have the Northern European credibility in business but I don’t think they’re anywhere close as efficient or organised as the Germans or the Dutch. This is just personal experience but I’ve come to realise it seems to be the norm that British management is overall terrible.

Incorrect (Or have you sources?).... the issue is old legacy based companies. No matter where they are based.

Legacy as in business systems, business thought process, legacy IT, etc.

TC is a very old company

Post reply on HN