Irish Teenager Wins Global Science Award for Removing Microplastics from Water • Hacker News Board

Re: Irish Teenager Wins Global Science Award for Removing Microplastics from Water

#101

Post by Retric » Sun, Sep 15, 2019, 3:54 PM UTC

leftyted wrote: post #86

madez wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This reads like a figurative kick in the face to those who argue against free education and social programmes "because the market will solve it and those that work hard enough will make it, so it's fair". The world is deeply unjust economically and the vast majority loses from that, and those, that manage the inquality by using the cheap larbor and forced constraints of the disadvantaged to serve the more fortunate o…

> there should be a big consensus for universal conditionless free education, social security and health insurance backed by the government. You allude to the best argument for these things, something like: "people are born into the world with a set of advantages and disadvantages they neither earned nor deserve, so we should do our best to even the playing field". But you missed the mark in terms of identifying the…

That’s a falsifiable argument. US has averaged faster economic growth with high marginal tax rates than low ones. The reality is rich people have no choice but to invest their wealth or inflation eats it up. The only real change from 15% to 70% marginal tax rates is the amount of effort put into tax avoidance. The reason for this is maximizing income occurs before taxes are calculated, so you can get nearly identical behavior independent of tax rates.

Further, equality of opportunity is surprisingly cheap over time. You end up with more capable workforce which pays for the cost of maintaining it.

PS: Now targeted deductions are another story, those can cause real economic harm.

Re: Irish Teenager Wins Global Science Award for Removing Microplastics from Water

#102

Post by hinkley » Sun, Sep 15, 2019, 4:02 PM UTC

stefap2 wrote: post #72

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #57

Sure, but why? What harm do these things do? I know, lots of articles are published that cite one another. But none of them have any actual harm documented. They just vaguely refer to one another with "It's well-known that these things are harmful" and then cite another article that says the same thing. It reminds me of 'solar roads', another hyped-up internet sensation based on nothing.

Evidence suggests microplastics in water pose ‘minimal health risk’ (bbc.com) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20766496

Having trouble finding a reference but I recall that they used to comment on how certain pollutants stick readily to plastics.

So while the plastic might not be absorbed, can we say the same thing about what’s stuck to the plastic?

Re: Irish Teenager Wins Global Science Award for Removing Microplastics from Water

#103

Post by skybrian » Sun, Sep 15, 2019, 4:02 PM UTC

leftyted wrote: post #86

madez wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This reads like a figurative kick in the face to those who argue against free education and social programmes "because the market will solve it and those that work hard enough will make it, so it's fair". The world is deeply unjust economically and the vast majority loses from that, and those, that manage the inquality by using the cheap larbor and forced constraints of the disadvantaged to serve the more fortunate o…

> there should be a big consensus for universal conditionless free education, social security and health insurance backed by the government. You allude to the best argument for these things, something like: "people are born into the world with a set of advantages and disadvantages they neither earned nor deserve, so we should do our best to even the playing field". But you missed the mark in terms of identifying the…

That's ok as far as it goes, but it's not very far. To be convincing, the argument about negative incentives resulting in lower growth needs to be expanded on more than it usually is. (Or is reasonable to do in casual conversation.)

Re: Irish Teenager Wins Global Science Award for Removing Microplastics from Water

#104

Post by JoeAltmaier » Sun, Sep 15, 2019, 4:05 PM UTC

hinkley wrote: post #102

stefap2 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Evidence suggests microplastics in water pose ‘minimal health risk’ (bbc.com) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20766496

Having trouble finding a reference but I recall that they used to comment on how certain pollutants stick readily to plastics. So while the plastic might not be absorbed, can we say the same thing about what’s stuck to the plastic?

That's where the FUD comes in. With no evidence of any kind, everybody can get excited as they like about the possibilities.

Science involves measuring things. So far, all that's been measured (unreliably) is that these things exist.

Re: Irish Teenager Wins Global Science Award for Removing Microplastics from Water

#105

Post by leftyted » Sun, Sep 15, 2019, 4:08 PM UTC

Retric wrote: post #101

leftyted wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there should be a big consensus for universal conditionless free education, social security and health insurance backed by the government. You allude to the best argument for these things, something like: "people are born into the world with a set of advantages and disadvantages they neither earned nor deserve, so we should do our best to even the playing field". But you missed the mark in terms of identifying the…

That’s a falsifiable argument. US has averaged faster economic growth with high marginal tax rates than low ones. The reality is rich people have no choice but to invest their wealth or inflation eats it up. The only real change from 15% to 70% marginal tax rates is the amount of effort put into tax avoidance. The reason for this is maximizing income occurs before taxes are calculated, so you can get nearly identical…

I don't think you've falsified the argument. Maybe you would have if economic growth and marginal tax rates are the only variables.

I think it's pretty clear that progressive taxes create negative incentives, particularly when it comes to encouraging people to get rich in the first place (which usually means starting a business).

> Further, equality of opportunity is surprisingly cheap over time. You end up with more capable workforce which pays for the cost of training it.

Yeah, the question is where to draw the line. Public education seems like something we definitely want. But if we truly want equality of opportunity, I don't think we can have communities like this:

> Schull is a very small community, couple of thousand max but there's been a lot of 'alternative' type immigration there from other first world countries, artists etc from places like England (eg Jeremy irons), Netherlands so its secondary school is pretty progressive afaik. They have a slipway to the bay right next to the school so the school does sailing classes etc. The planetarium in question is a stone's throw from the school. County Cork has a youth orchestra. Overall not the worst place in the world to grow up.

Everyone can't have sailing lessons and a planetarium.

Re: Irish Teenager Wins Global Science Award for Removing Microplastics from Water

#106

Post by RootKitBeerCat » Sun, Sep 15, 2019, 4:13 PM UTC

_edo wrote: post #100

jadbox wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Person's A child won't be held back tangibly if instead of a living on a 100+ million family fortune, that instead it's a fraction of that due to equalization of education efforts. Man cannot be born as equals when one child could buy their entire university, while another cannot even afford basic living.

And what happens to society as a whole when we abandon a person's right to own the products of their labor? What happens when highly productive people decide they have better things to do than go to work and get taxed at 70%? A lot of people like a carbon tax because it will lower carbon emissions, if you tax productivity it has the same effect. A lot of people like clean energy subsidies because it makes clean energ…

Here you begin to sound like you’re equating productivity to income.

There are many companies that produce little real world value, yet tons of income.

Re: Irish Teenager Wins Global Science Award for Removing Microplastics from Water

#107

Post by carapace » Sun, Sep 15, 2019, 4:19 PM UTC

cududa wrote: post #27

carapace wrote: post #18

Tangent: I have a hunch that the Ranque-Hilsch vortex tube, or something based on it, could be used to separate or just concentrate microplastics from water. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vortex_tube > The vortex tube was used to separate gas mixtures, oxygen and nitrogen, carbon dioxide and helium, carbon dioxide and air in 1967 by Linderstrom-Lang. Vortex tubes also seem to work with liquids to some extent...

In extremely focused on under ground pumped hydro energy storage using derelict mines as core infrastructure, and I think you just gave me a very big idea. Any interest in discussing this concept?

I'm not an engineer. I doubt I could contribute anything.

Re: Irish Teenager Wins Global Science Award for Removing Microplastics from Water

#108

Post by 52-6F-62 » Sun, Sep 15, 2019, 4:24 PM UTC

cheez wrote: post #74

52-6F-62 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re not alone there. Ontario is battling it out over this (once again). It’s regretful that it’s even a question anymore.

A few years ago, we were considering relocating to Toronto. We went to a school and had a meeting with the principal of the local school. This principal said to us in no uncertain terms that if we can afford private school, to not send our children to public school in Toronto. Now, could this be a selfish reason on his part? Sure, but I doubt it. He walked us through why. Toronto is huge. What you see with the teenag…

I grew up on the other side of that coin—a small town without enough resources. It wasn’t the worst of them, but when school boards were amalgamated it sparked internal politics as to where funding was allocated. I was a kid, so I wasn’t directly involved, but looking back on it—it was sad. Rural regions basically battling each other to keep textbooks up to date. And even in that state there were kids winning nation-wide scholarships. The problem was the others who weren’t so gifted had opportunities stripped from them by some man they’d never know. I could go on an anger-filled rant about it but I won’t. (Haha?)

I prefer to say anything I’ve done or accomplished was in spite of that situation (and because of good teachers) rather than because of those stringent circumstances.

But yes, in Ontario the best schools are probably just outside of the big city centres rather than in them. Upper Canada College for one. The world that places like that exist in is so far removed from the Canada I grew up with that I still think I’d have to see it in person to believe it exists. I’m only partly exaggerating.

I hope we can do better than that in the future I’m realizing that we’re all better off if every child has the opportunity to learn and experience from the widest array—rather than limiting those opportunities to children who had the good fortune of good circumstance. It’s not exactly in their control, and it seems like a hell of a good investment to me.

Re: Irish Teenager Wins Global Science Award for Removing Microplastics from Water

#109

Post by vharuck » Sun, Sep 15, 2019, 4:24 PM UTC

_edo wrote: post #100

jadbox wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Person's A child won't be held back tangibly if instead of a living on a 100+ million family fortune, that instead it's a fraction of that due to equalization of education efforts. Man cannot be born as equals when one child could buy their entire university, while another cannot even afford basic living.

And what happens to society as a whole when we abandon a person's right to own the products of their labor? What happens when highly productive people decide they have better things to do than go to work and get taxed at 70%? A lot of people like a carbon tax because it will lower carbon emissions, if you tax productivity it has the same effect. A lot of people like clean energy subsidies because it makes clean energ…

>A lot of people like a carbon tax because it will lower carbon emissions, if you tax productivity it has the same effect.

It's not the same situation, so there's no reason to think it'd have the same effect.

A carbon tax's effect would come from opportunity cost. A company stops a behavior because of a carbon tax when they've found something more profitable. The tax just shifts the line of "more profitable."

But what's somebody going to do if you tax their wealth more? They only "other opportunities" are leaving the country or having more free time. The first is definitely a risk to consider, but the second seems unlikely for the class whose income comes from just investing their wealth. Why not invest, even if the profits are smaller?

Re: Irish Teenager Wins Global Science Award for Removing Microplastics from Water

#110

Post by jtr1 » Sun, Sep 15, 2019, 4:33 PM UTC

_edo wrote: post #100

jadbox wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Person's A child won't be held back tangibly if instead of a living on a 100+ million family fortune, that instead it's a fraction of that due to equalization of education efforts. Man cannot be born as equals when one child could buy their entire university, while another cannot even afford basic living.

And what happens to society as a whole when we abandon a person's right to own the products of their labor? What happens when highly productive people decide they have better things to do than go to work and get taxed at 70%? A lot of people like a carbon tax because it will lower carbon emissions, if you tax productivity it has the same effect. A lot of people like clean energy subsidies because it makes clean energ…

> And what happens to society as a whole when we abandon a person's right to own the products of their labor?

You don't acquire a $100 million fortune by performing 1000x the labor of a person with $100k, you get it by skimming the fruits of a lot of other people's labor.