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Dissatisfied with Docker

robert.ocallahan.org

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Re: Dissatisfied with Docker

#101

Post by jonahbenton »

syrusakbary wrote: post #49
gravypod wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there a feature by feature comparison of wasmer to docker? I don't think Wasmer, while interesting, is a container system. It looks more like a bytecode vm. Things I use and love from docker that to me feel "container"-y: 1. OSs as a library (FROM alpine:3.9) 2. Network namespaces so all applications think they are running on a machine with port 80 available 3. Service discovery through DNS 4. CPU and memory share…

Wasmer is an application-based container while Docker is a OS-based container. Because of that some of the things that you posted are a bit hard to compare. We believe that by having a VM (based on a industry adopted specification such as WebAssembly) we can control much more granularly both execution (CPU, memory) and the runtime interoperability with the system (networking, file system, ...), solving most of the is…

With all respect- Docker packages a known code stack in a box. WASM creates a whole new code stack.

Docker, with all its problems, solves a huge problem for the enterprise. WASM, cool as it is, creates a new one.

I would love to see a WASM + unikernel builder, and some lightweight node scheduler that could plug into kubernetes, so you could run thousands of WASM packages on a node within a k8s cluster, rather than 10s of containers. That increase in leverage would justify the new code stack risk.

Re: Dissatisfied with Docker

#102

Post by thosakwe »

wp381640 wrote: post #93
smudgymcscmudge wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“docker system prune” is a recipe for pegging my cpu for the next few hours.

man nice

For those who downvoted this, I’m pretty sure GP is referring to the “nice” command line tool, used to give a task a certain priority: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nice_(Unix)

Re: Dissatisfied with Docker

#103

Post by dbleyl »

neckardt wrote: post #56

I'm surprised nobody is mentioning LXC[1]. I'm by no means a containers expert, but they claim to be more secure since they default to running as non-root. Unlike docker, I had no trouble installing LXC with apt, while with docker I often got an outdated version. I'm now using LXC for all of my basic container applications (self hosting a wiki and a few other sites). [1]: https://linuxcontainers.org/

lxc is awesome, wondering the same thing. Also has some niches in the kubernetes space. Using lxc for development DBs and private servers.

Re: Dissatisfied with Docker

#104

Post by geerlingguy »

jdnenej wrote: post #86
syrusakbary wrote: post #4

The article is completely on point. Because of all the reasons exposed there (and a few more) I started Wasmer, a new container system based on WebAssembly - https://wasmer.io/ Here are some advantages of Wasmer vs Docker: * Much faster startup time * Smaller containers * OS independent containers (they can run in Linux, macOS and Windows) * Chipset independent containers (so they can run anywhere: x86_64, Aarch64/AR…

This sounds like a great idea. Docker on ARM is such a pain if you aren't building everything yourself because half the packages are x86 only

More than half, I’d say 90%.

Re: Dissatisfied with Docker

#105

Post by techntoke »

notyourday wrote: post #83
techntoke wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is way slower than Docker. Rootless containers are already a thing. If you still want VMs then see Kata Containers. Containers have a lot of benefits, the major one for me is reproducibility and application sandboxing. There is a reason containers exist and that every large cloud platform has adopted them, including Microsoft adding support in Windows.

> This is way slower than Docker. add-job bake-instances --app=my-id --instances=200 Oh, you never wrote tooling and you dont have a jobbing engine? Well, that's the complaiing that you can't get an an Uber because you did not download an app. It is sort of funny because every single shop that is "oh containers!" either creates them manually ( slow and painfully ) or just uses random ones developers find. > There is…

> Oh, you never wrote tooling and you dont have a jobbing engine? Well, that's the complaiing that you can't get an an Uber because you did not download an app. It is sort of funny because every single shop that is "oh containers!" either creates them manually ( slow and painfully ) or just uses random ones developers find.

Whatever helps you sleep at night. Creating a container image doesn't have to be slow. There are a lot of tools to help with this that provide things like caching. If I find a container image, the first thing I do is look at the Dockerfile to see if it follows best practices, and if it is secure and lightweight. A lot of the official images on Docker Hub are pretty good. Creating a VM image is going to be slower than Docker period.

> It is the same reason why Whole Foods sells sushi: that's teh way to sell salmon for $85/lb to hipsters. Hipsters hate buying salmon for $22/lb but they love the rolls.

I don't know what this has to do with anything. Besides, I thought hipsters would be vegan.

Re: Dissatisfied with Docker

#106

Post by techntoke »

smudgymcscmudge wrote: post #89
wp381640 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

those scripts are now built into docker with `docker system prune`

“docker system prune” is a recipe for pegging my cpu for the next few hours.

If that is the case then you likely have something misconfigured, or are running on seriously underpowered hardware or in a VM that needs more resources allocated to it.

Re: Dissatisfied with Docker

#107

Post by alpb »

solipsism wrote: post #95
alpb wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please explain. You can build images using Bazel with distroless as the base image. Similarly I think Jib/ko use distroless images without needing a docker engine.

The thing you build is a Docker image.

Technically an OCI image, and there’s nothing relevant that is mentioned in the original article in your argument, and you can run the resulting image without docker so I think at this point your argument sounds like random blabber, sorry.

Re: Dissatisfied with Docker

#109

Post by month13 »

aledalgrande wrote: post #8

These are real problems with docker, but do we wanna talk about docker for Mac? A total performance disaster. https://github.com/docker/for-mac/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Ao...

Wondering if it's worthwhile just rolling my own vm and run whatever i want in there. I'd lose all the ability to bind to my host's ports, but would be able to control the daemon a bit better.

Re: Dissatisfied with Docker

#110

Post by pavon »

solipsism wrote: post #95
alpb wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please explain. You can build images using Bazel with distroless as the base image. Similarly I think Jib/ko use distroless images without needing a docker engine.

The thing you build is a Docker image.

It is an OCI image[1], which is supported by multiple runtimes, including docker.

[1]https://www.opencontainers.org/

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