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Statement on the Purpose of a Corporation

businessroundtable.org

101–110 of 211 posts

Re: Statement on the Purpose of a Corporation

#101
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Curious where people thing they are wrong or incomplete. The whole premise of the article is wrong. The premise is that the problem with corporations is that they only consider the interests of their shareholders. That's wrong. The actual problem with corporations is that corporate governance has broken down, so that corporations no longer consider the interests of all their shareholders, and the shareholders thems…

> Most shareholders now, in terms of percentage of voting stock ownership, are not individuals but mutual funds, who don't care what the corporation's goals are as long as its stock price and dividends meet targets; and CEOs, even if their share holdings are small as a percentage of the total, can easily get themselves special compensation packages and golden parachutes regardless of whether they improve the corporat…

> Corporations these days are simply “financial paperclip maximizers”: amoral entities that do whatever is profitable, consequences beyond the bottom line be damned.

I don't think "whatever is profitable" pins it down enough. They do what is profitable on a short time scale. They don't do what is profitable over long time scales like 30 or 50 or 100 years. If they did, they would not be able to get away with, for example, privatizing profits and socializing costs, because what enables them to do that is that the profits show up in the short term but the costs only show up in the long term.

Back when corporate governance worked, shareholders were mostly individuals and they typically held shares on a long time horizon. That created obvious incentives to judge corporations by profits on a long time horizon. But now, most shareholders are mutual funds who judge individual corporations on a short time horizon--if the corporations don't make their numbers, the mutual fund trades their stock away. That means corporations have no incentive now to look at profits on a long time horizon--even though their shareholders do.

Re: Statement on the Purpose of a Corporation

#102
Way back when, I used to do some volunteer work for the Better Business Bureau, which put out similar messaging in regard to everyday consumer complaints. It also was a business-funded group that, in hindsight, tried to accomplish three things:

1. Letting companies feel good about themselves

2. Providing something worthy sounding in the public eye that might defuse "bad publicity."

3. Doing a bit of investigation and complaint resolution in connection with the scummiest 5% of businesses, which often weren't members. Moral outrage? A desire to kneecap the most difficult competitors? Probably a bit of both.

I'll agree with earlier posters who are a bit cynical about all the factors listed in Reasons 1 and 2. But Reason 3 shouldn't be overlooked. I don't think the Business Roundtable will suddenly be concerned about how Exxon, Walmart, etc. make their money or deal with customers, employees, suppliers, etc. On the other hand, odds are good that they will take a stand against small-time chicken processors, toxic-waste dumpers, etc.

Back in my BBB days, we did some real work to crack down on fraudulent apartment-referral outfits, which not only ripped off newcomers to New York City, but also made life ugly for the mainstream realtors, building owners, etc. that were BBB members.

Even if such battles may seem like grandstanding, they can be of some use.

Re: Statement on the Purpose of a Corporation

#103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Soviet Union had show trials and U.S. has show letters. The legal purpose of a corporation is to generate returns for shareholders. If training employees and helping customers advances that goal, then corporations should do it. Otherwise - no. Goes without saying that corporations should maximize shareholder value using legal means only.

>The legal purpose of a corporation is to generate returns for shareholders. >Goes without saying that corporations should maximize shareholder value using legal means only. But why? This line of thinking typically assumes that people start companies strictly to make money--an assumption that I see as patently false. There are plenty of for-profit social enterprises (which is to say nothing of non-profits). For examp…

Patagonia is also a B Corp [1], and it has a legal obligation to the mission statement that you've mentioned, not just maximizing shareholder value. I think the parent comment is just snidely remarking that the C Corps that have signed the letter are still required to maximize shareholder value, or they will face legal action.

I am uncertain how this letter changes the established case law regarding C Corps.

[1] https://www.patagonia.com/b-lab.html

Re: Statement on the Purpose of a Corporation

#104

You can be cynical about this, and a healthy amount of skepticism is warranted given the authorship. That said, it would be interesting (healthy?) to discuss/debate the merits of the actual statements: * Delivering value to our customers. We will further the tradition of American companies leading the way in meeting or exceeding customer expectations. * Investing in our employees. This starts with compensating them f…

Most of this is obviously desirable, but the explicit message is "we commit to doing good", with the implicit message being "we can be trusted to do good". The mechanisms which guarantee these promises are wholly unaddressed. For example, there's no mention of competition or its belief that healthy, fair competition brings about these things. In fact, it's distinctly anti-competitive in the fact that the leadership o…

I couldn't agree more strongly.

I tend to get harshly downvoted when I bring up Google on Hacker News (since it employs a disproportionate amount of Bay Area engineers that hang out here and then get defensive about it), but no other company did I see quite the disconnect between what they SAY they aspire to and how they ACT.

Google has built an incredibly strong PR brand on being the "good guys", a "not a conventional corporation", "don't be evil", etc. But in a way it's far more dangerous. At least we know what Goldman Sachs is about, making money, the employees there largely know it, the world around them knows it, people know to be on guard when dealing with Goldman because you know what their motives are.

With Google, having worked in NYC with finance companies and spent many years at Google, people are Google are as obsessed with money, success, and prestige as any finance employee. But they SAY they are about making the world a better place, responsibility etc. Where this leads is not, Google doesn't do bad things, but the much scarier, they do wrong things but saying they can't be wrong because Google is the one doing it, and Google is supposedly good! Taking a page from Nixon, "when the president does it, it's not illegal."

This came to a head during the Maven debate over using Tensorflow to build auto-aim killbots. The most common ethical defense amongst employees was "well, if we don't do it, Amazon will do it, and that would be worse! Because we're Google, and we're the good guys." Now if a crack dealer said, it's alright for me to sell dangerous narcotics to these children and addicts, because if I don't do it, someone else will. And that person could be even worse! Would ANYONE accept that argument as ethically coherent? Of course not, yet these otherwise very intelligent Google employees seemingly swallowed up Google's absurd logic without thinking. You become the good guy by NOT doing the bad things, not by doing the bad things while claiming it's alright because you SAID you're the good guys.

Now, to pre-empt people accusing me of derailing, I'm not because this is extremely relevant to the original article being discussed here. This is banks leaders like Jamie Dimon following Google's lead. You don't have to actually take any REAL moral stand, you don't have to make any real ethical decisions, all you have to do is TALK about it a lot. Control the message. It's dishonest and it's hypocritical but it's worked out very well for Google. Compare Google to Uber. If you just look at the facts, between the Kelly Ellis accusations, the Andy Rubin thing, many more examples, Google's sexual harassment FACTS are actually WAY worse than what Uber was accused of. Yet Uber now has this awful reputation for being terrible to women while Google gets way less flak in both the tech community and the broader world - why? All because Larry and Sergey played the PR game way better than TK, they were the cool hip burners who cared about progressive stuff, while really they run their companies with the exact same corporate malfeasance, profit at any cost strategy of any NYC financial institution.

Bottom line, we need to hold companies accountable with ACTIONS, and if they give us WORDS instead of ACTIONS we should be MORE critical, not drop our guard and be LESS critical.

Re: Statement on the Purpose of a Corporation

#106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"This starts with compensating them fairly and providing important benefits." So 51% of corporate profits are reserved for the employee bonus pool? And all employees are eligible for said bonuses? It's not hard to come up with examples of where this fails. Don't give me aspirational pie in the sky. Give me operational policy.

I agree that operational policy is important, but you're not going to get that (and you don't want it, necessarily) from the Business Roundtable. Rather, you'd want each company to execute on that kind of policy and share experiences. It is easy to be skeptical here (and I am), but I think it would be folly to disregard the attempt as mere public relations fodder and instead see this as a starting point and continue…

When would it be clear that these companies are not following up after their statement? How many chances would you give them? Would you ever stop giving them chances?

Re: Statement on the Purpose of a Corporation

#107

You can be cynical about this, and a healthy amount of skepticism is warranted given the authorship. That said, it would be interesting (healthy?) to discuss/debate the merits of the actual statements: * Delivering value to our customers. We will further the tradition of American companies leading the way in meeting or exceeding customer expectations. * Investing in our employees. This starts with compensating them f…

“Fairly” - implying that they could pay more, but don’t?

Lots of businesses operate on razor thin margins, but still serve if a purpose.

What should be their course of action?

Re: Statement on the Purpose of a Corporation

#108
post #95

Am I the only one who noticed that there are no references to 'consumers'? There's plenty of 'customers'. I'd like to see more of that, too.

What distinction are you making between the two?

'Consumer' is a cold, impersonal word. 'Customer' hints that there's a human on the other end.

My web service client is a JSON consumer, but I'm a store's customer. It doesn't work the other way.

Re: Statement on the Purpose of a Corporation

#109
post #24

Wake me up when I can use such a statement as a means to legally coerce corporations into compliance with existing laws, to say nothing of the exigent environmental threats facing the world. Literally every CEO would laugh at this statement in the privacy of their office, while they engineer stock manipulation to trigger their stock options and retire in 5 years. It's like an ethics in business class at MBA schools.…

"Self-regulation" like this always fails. The marketplace is unforgiving: a company which does not push externalities onto wider society will be put at a competitive disadvantage to one which does. This statement is a bunch of malarkey designed to present the appearance of reform in order to avert the reality of reform.

I think this can explain why individual companies don't go out of their way to behave better when it hurts their bottom line. But why don't companies come together to advocate for better standards overall, so that no one in particular is put at a disadvantage? Seems like a culture issue, not just the iron laws of economics and competition.

Re: Statement on the Purpose of a Corporation

#110

You can be cynical about this, and a healthy amount of skepticism is warranted given the authorship. That said, it would be interesting (healthy?) to discuss/debate the merits of the actual statements: * Delivering value to our customers. We will further the tradition of American companies leading the way in meeting or exceeding customer expectations. * Investing in our employees. This starts with compensating them f…

Until I see "abatement of lobbying" I won't believe any of this has good intentions.
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