US Navy will replace touchscreen with mechanical controls on its destroyers • Hacker News Board

Re: US Navy will replace touchscreen with mechanical controls on its destroyers

#101

Post by droithomme » Sun, Aug 11, 2019, 5:46 PM UTC

jakear wrote: post #5

rossdavidh wrote: post #2

You know, I think touchscreens are not preferable unless you need/want to be able to have controls for many different systems in the same space (e.g. a smartphone with multiple apps). If you are needing a dedicated control for a high-stakes system, the fact that it's a more modern-looking interface should not matter. Touchscreens are inherently inferior to a mechanical interface, if it's a single-system (i.e. doesn't…

This is why I detest touchscreens for most car functions. Specifically AC, with old fashioned knobs I have full control over AC without taking my eyes off the road, but nowadays everyone wants to put it on their infotainment system, hidden beneath 4 other buttons.

> I detest touchscreens for most car functions

Agreed. I consider them dangerous, a threat to public safety, they should be banned by the NTSB, and some cars that use them should be under recall to retrofit them with mechanical controls.

Many states are now passing hands free laws that criminalize the use of phones or any other devices that use your hands while driving. The states provide exceptions for car touch screen use, but they shouldn't. They should criminalize the use of all touch screens when driving, not just some.

Re: US Navy will replace touchscreen with mechanical controls on its destroyers

#102

Post by mlonkibjuyhv » Sun, Aug 11, 2019, 5:47 PM UTC

Someone1234 wrote: post #48

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honest question: Why don't modern cars yet monitor humidity in and outside the car and make the correct decisions to keep your windows clear? Why are we focusing on self-driving cars while our cars are too dumb to do this much on their own?

It isn't caused by any specific humidity levels. While it is depositing water droplets on to the glass surface, that same water is normally suspended harmlessly in the air (it is effectively de-humidifying the air onto the cold windows). It is caused by the glass's surface temperature being much lower than the air temperature inside the car. Humans are warm. The air we breath is warm. We're heating up the interior of…

I think knowing the temperatures and such amounts to predicting the foggy state. Detecting it could look much different. Visual observation is obvious. With purpose built glass, perhaps one could look at electrical properties on the inside of the windshield. Maybe changes in the reflectivity of the glass could be used. Maybe some refractive index shenanigans?

Re: US Navy will replace touchscreen with mechanical controls on its destroyers

#103

Post by vinay427 » Sun, Aug 11, 2019, 5:47 PM UTC

blackflame7000 wrote: post #82

vinay427 wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This depends on the state/region. There's no universal standard in the US, and some states definitely don't require the operation of all of these controls before the test.

Just because it's not on your test doesn't mean you shouldn't know how to operate your car properly. There's a lot not covered in each test that is still a requirement to operate a vehicle. In California, it is a requirement and all the roads are connected. Blaming a change in weather is unsafe. This is why we have so many accidents when it rains. Do you freak out when it gets dark because there are 4 touchscreen but…

Hmm, this doesn't seem to be a response to what I said. Maybe you accidentally replied to the wrong comment?

Re: US Navy will replace touchscreen with mechanical controls on its destroyers

#104

Post by HeWhoLurksLate » Sun, Aug 11, 2019, 5:47 PM UTC

xnyan wrote: post #68

dmix wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure the vast majority of FPS players are using controllers...

I use a keyboard/mouse for PC games not because I'm trying to be an elite couter-strike player, I just find the analog joystick uncomfortable and difficult to use most of the time.

Similarly, coming from CS:GO, I'm way better at Hitman 2 with mouse & keyboard than I am with a controller, even though it has great optimizations for controllers.

Re: US Navy will replace touchscreen with mechanical controls on its destroyers

#105

Post by nitrogen » Sun, Aug 11, 2019, 5:47 PM UTC

enobrev wrote: post #58

rossdavidh wrote: post #2

You know, I think touchscreens are not preferable unless you need/want to be able to have controls for many different systems in the same space (e.g. a smartphone with multiple apps). If you are needing a dedicated control for a high-stakes system, the fact that it's a more modern-looking interface should not matter. Touchscreens are inherently inferior to a mechanical interface, if it's a single-system (i.e. doesn't…

This is a pretty old complaint, but my initial issues about the ipod, especially 2nd and 3rd gen was the lack of manual controls. At a younger age, a walkman or discman in my pocket with headphones in my ears was a constant, and I was able to find my way through whatever media was in there quickly and easily by thumb. With the iPod, I could manage sometimes but about half the time I ended up having to take it out and…

This seems unfortunately common across all industries. People focus on visual appeal only to the detriment of all other senses.

Fruit gets larger and brighter, but the flavor and texture go down.

Acoustic paneled ceilings are removed in favor of exposed ductwork and beams, but noise transmission between floors and echoes on the same floor get much worse. (I am torn about this one though)

Buttons with tactile guidance feel great but look too 1990s so everything becomes a glass rectangle.

I would really really like to see and participate in a renaissance of design that accounts for all of the human senses in all their forms.

Re: US Navy will replace touchscreen with mechanical controls on its destroyers

#106

Post by c-smile » Sun, Aug 11, 2019, 5:49 PM UTC

Quequau wrote: post #26

Recently I've taken up metal machining as a semi-serious hobby. Fully automated CNC machines don't entirely fit my use-cases but for a couple of them LinuxCNC works fine. The primary UI for LinuxCNC is a touchscreen and frankly it's a frustrating limitation. LCD Touchscreens are just not well suited for that sort of environment. Legit OEM CNC controls are better but honestly every time I use one I can't but feel like…

> can stand up well in harsh environments.

As an anecdotal evidence...

I was working with one team that was tasked to create device for work in harsh environment. Problem is that they cannot use even mechanical knobs there. Capacitive buttons were the only option. But the control panel can be dirty preventing normal operation.

They came up with the smart idea - in order to start the device operator shall rub all control panels of the device so touching two adjacent buttons (by special scouring/cleaning pad) and in particular order.

Re: US Navy will replace touchscreen with mechanical controls on its destroyers

#107

Post by away_throw » Sun, Aug 11, 2019, 5:52 PM UTC

greedo wrote: post #53

dmix wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure the vast majority of FPS players are using controllers...

Most highly skilled FPS players are using mice/keyboard. In games where both console and PC are supported, PC players usually have far higher mechanical skills due to the greater controllability enabled by mouse/keyboard. Watch the OWL, and half the maneuvers that players make are simply impossible to do with a game controller.

Wouldn't a keyboard be considered a mechanical interface still since you have mechanical springs, switches that convert into a digital signal which is what is used for most games.

Re: US Navy will replace touchscreen with mechanical controls on its destroyers

#108

Post by mort96 » Sun, Aug 11, 2019, 5:55 PM UTC

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #38

Someone1234 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is often repeated but not the complete picture. Modern, knob based, vehicle climate control systems actually bury a lot of functionality. For example Toyota's "automatic" AC you can either pick between fully automatic or a subset of manual controls. That's because they ran out of space/complexity headroom for more controls. Touch screen climate control integrates better with voice (which you should be using whil…

I feel like you're making some very false choices between smarts/voice compatibility and physical controls. Physical buttons and dials for users to interact with that still can be changed by the system are wholly possible. For instance, a rocker switch that sits in the middle can be used to issue on and off commands, while being separate from say, a status light that lets you know whether the device is on or off. Whi…

Voice controls suck and are exclusionary as fuck. Maybe they work for the subset of the population who natively speak a very standard dialect of American or British and have no speech impediments; for those people it's just an annoyance to have to pause the podcast or music.

For the rest of the population of this planet, voice controls are horrible; either the user doesn't speak the supported languages at all, or speaking the supported language doesn't come naturally and switching to it requires mental effort, or it's an infuriating experience to try to make the bloody machine correctly interpret what you're saying.

That's even ignoring the complete fucking shit show that is software trying to understand natural language and infer meaning, without just turning it into a tedious form of a command line interface.

Re: US Navy will replace touchscreen with mechanical controls on its destroyers

#109

Post by inflatableDodo » Sun, Aug 11, 2019, 5:58 PM UTC

dmix wrote: post #41

inflatableDodo wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>We still use controllers for video games over keyboards/mice Not that good an example, at least for first person shooters.

I'm sure the vast majority of FPS players are using controllers...

I suspect there are more PC gamers than console gamers and FPS shooters will lean towards PC compared to the overall distribution.

Re: US Navy will replace touchscreen with mechanical controls on its destroyers

#110

Post by cletus » Sun, Aug 11, 2019, 6:02 PM UTC

Great. If only monitor manufacturers would do the same thing.

I have a monitor with exactly 2 inputs (1 DP, 1 HDMI). What do I need to do to switch between them?

1. Press the Menu button

2. Move the option to Input Source

3. Select Input Source

4. Move from one to the other

5. Press Select

Some monitor will compress 1-3 into a single Input Source option. Still, 3 presses? Why does literally NO ONE make a monitor with hardware input source buttons? WHY?

I HATE OSD menus. With a passion. I don't care if it's a few cents cheaper. They are literally AWFUL. Just look at the Macbook touch bar and how much it's generally reviled.